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Norway is wealthy because of oil. Can it give up fossil fuels?

csmonitor.com

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Re: Norway is wealthy because of oil. Can it give up fossil fuels?

#51

Post by londons_explore »

credit_guy wrote: post #24

Norway is wealthy because of its strong institutions. Nigeria and Venezuela have more oil, Azerbaijan and Libya too, but for them it's a curse not a blessing. Norway has the rule of law, low corruption, people have confidence in their government, and the government looks out for the people. With or without oil, these things are tremendous assets. If oil were to become worthless tomorrow, Norway would continue to do q…

Could the fact Norway's oil is offshore be a big part of this difference?

Only the best prepared attackers can wrestle control of those oilfields from the government and their delegates.

Whereas if oil is over land, all it takes is a few determined people to shut down production for weeks.

Re: Norway is wealthy because of oil. Can it give up fossil fuels?

#52

Post by hanche »

mogadsheu wrote: post #38
credit_guy wrote: post #24

Norway is wealthy because of its strong institutions. Nigeria and Venezuela have more oil, Azerbaijan and Libya too, but for them it's a curse not a blessing. Norway has the rule of law, low corruption, people have confidence in their government, and the government looks out for the people. With or without oil, these things are tremendous assets. If oil were to become worthless tomorrow, Norway would continue to do q…

They’ve managed to maintain their wealth in social order largely because they’re neighbors of the British and friendly with them. And they’re part of NATO. When Philips struck at Ekofisk some very smart people in the US/UK came to help them develop. Norway was (by their own account) a country of scattered fishing villages.

> Norway was (by their own account) a country of scattered fishing villages.

By whose account, again? I grew up in Norway just before the oil boom started, and I never thought of the country that way. We had lumber, we had cheap hydroelectric power that we used to process aluminium and make fertiliser, and we were practically a global superpower in terms of ocean shipping. True, we weren’t rich in the way we are now, far from it – but weren’t that poor either.

A big part of our success as an oil producing nation is that we weren’t simply letting the (mostly) American oil producers just come in and do as they pleased; instead, we insisted on building our own expertise and running the business on our own terms. We hit many snags along the way, but it has paid off in the long run.

Re: Norway is wealthy because of oil. Can it give up fossil fuels?

#53

Post by Norwegianguy »

maybelsyrup wrote: post #34
Norwegianguy wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we don't export petroleum products, someone else will. Much of the money we earn from petroleum is spent on making "the green shift" happen. Can other exporters say the same?

"Much of the money I earn selling fentanyl-laced cocaine is spent on building new rehabs. Can other drug dealers say the same?"

By all means make snarky remarks instead of actual arguments. I hope you're not from the US, or the hypocrisy would be tangible.

In any case, if we stopped exporting oil products now, the only real effect would be that supply goes down, driving prices up for Qatar, the US, Russia and other major exporters -- who each have significantly higher emissions (per capita) than Norway. Instead we are spending money on finding ways to decrease demand, to make the step away from petroleum globally. If you ask me, that's a far better, and more realistic, solution.

Re: Norway is wealthy because of oil. Can it give up fossil fuels?

#54

Post by Norwegianguy »

6510 wrote: post #15
Norwegianguy wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we don't export petroleum products, someone else will. Much of the money we earn from petroleum is spent on making "the green shift" happen. Can other exporters say the same?

We use oil for so many things and wont be able to terminate its use any time soon. One could even argue it is to valuable to just burn it.

That's why we need to put money into finding alternatives.

Re: Norway is wealthy because of oil. Can it give up fossil fuels?

#55

Post by hanche »

metadata wrote: post #33

Here is a backstory of how Norway avoided the oil industry descent into corruption. They were lucky to hire an Iraqi with experience who built the healthy foundations. https://www.ft.com/content/99680a04-92a0-11de-b63b-00144feab...

Behind the paywall for me, but if it is about who I think it is, he was washing dishes at a restaurant until his real expertise was suddenly in demand.

Re: Norway is wealthy because of oil. Can it give up fossil fuels?

#56

Post by foobarbazbarfoo »

nowayman1 wrote: post #30
credit_guy wrote: post #24

Norway is wealthy because of its strong institutions. Nigeria and Venezuela have more oil, Azerbaijan and Libya too, but for them it's a curse not a blessing. Norway has the rule of law, low corruption, people have confidence in their government, and the government looks out for the people. With or without oil, these things are tremendous assets. If oil were to become worthless tomorrow, Norway would continue to do q…

No - Norway hasnt been treated like Nigeria, Venezuela, Azerbaijan and Libya because Norway is a white western country. Thus, neither the US/UK/France nor others will topple democratic regimes in Norway to get at the resources. Nigeria, Venezuela, Azerbaijan and Libya on the other hand are "expendable" nations where western powers clear the slate and build as they like. Usually in the name of Democracy, but really in…

> A perfect example is Iraq -- the US installed Saddam Hussein, then armed him, let me rule the country to despair, then the US spent two decades removing him and re-destroying the country. All the while, cheap to free oil was extracted from the nation for the benefit of western powers. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil-for-Food_Programme

As an Iraqi I am tired of people absolving us of agency as if the US just walks in and installs rulers left and right. There was no let there be Saddam, there were a lot of power grabs, internal struggle, and consolidation that happens before someone like Saddam becomes Saddam, and the most a western power can do is provide funds or international legitimacy

Re: Norway is wealthy because of oil. Can it give up fossil fuels?

#57

Post by londons_explore »

Norwegianguy wrote: post #4

The election was on Monday, the left side with Labor and the Center Party were the major winners. Which parties will form government remains to be seen. Not sure where they got that climate/environment was a big issue for this campaign, because it hasn't really been. The most outspoken "green" party even got a fairly mediocre result and fell below the very important 4 % limit. This will probably be seen as a sign tha…

The most effective course of action would be to implement a law that for every kilogram of carbon imported or extracted from Norwegian ocean, one kg of carbon must be sequestered somewhere in Norway.

Soon there will be nowhere to sequester carbon, no new space to plant trees, and oil and gas extraction will cease.

Along the way, tremendous funds will be poured into carbon collection and sequesteration technology, and energy prices will rise, forcing investment into alternatives.

Re: Norway is wealthy because of oil. Can it give up fossil fuels?

#58

Post by Y_Y »

nowayman1 wrote: post #30
credit_guy wrote: post #24

Norway is wealthy because of its strong institutions. Nigeria and Venezuela have more oil, Azerbaijan and Libya too, but for them it's a curse not a blessing. Norway has the rule of law, low corruption, people have confidence in their government, and the government looks out for the people. With or without oil, these things are tremendous assets. If oil were to become worthless tomorrow, Norway would continue to do q…

No - Norway hasnt been treated like Nigeria, Venezuela, Azerbaijan and Libya because Norway is a white western country. Thus, neither the US/UK/France nor others will topple democratic regimes in Norway to get at the resources. Nigeria, Venezuela, Azerbaijan and Libya on the other hand are "expendable" nations where western powers clear the slate and build as they like. Usually in the name of Democracy, but really in…

Who installed the corrupt regime in Azerbaijan? And why do you not include Swedish and Danish control of Norway?

Re: Norway is wealthy because of oil. Can it give up fossil fuels?

#59

Post by Scoundreller »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #17
Scoundreller wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which just lets them export more of the dino stuff they extract. Good move if you can do it. Can they give up exporting it too though? I doubt that will happen.

> Can they give up exporting it too though? How much would Norway lose if they pivoted to exporting plastics instead of crude oil for burning?

Wouldn’t make a difference. More non-Norwegian oil and gas would get shifted toward combustion from plastics.

I don’t think Europe is too big on plastics (or ammonia fertilizer) production because they really need the gas for local use and wouldn’t want to depend on Russian gas any more than they do.

Re: Norway is wealthy because of oil. Can it give up fossil fuels?

#60

Post by Scoundreller »

Can anyone explain Norway’s electricity usage? Per capita, it’s about double Sweden or USA, but electricity for consumers isn’t cheap.

Is a lot being sold at a steep discount to particular industries? Or is there a huge dependence on resistive heating or?

https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/EG.USE.ELEC.KH.PC

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