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6th Generation Stealth Fighter: Joint Effort by UK, Japan, Italy and Sweden?

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Re: 6th Generation Stealth Fighter: Joint Effort by UK, Japan, Italy and Sweden?

#161

Post by rjsw »

feral wrote: post #127
sgt101 wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hang on, I think you forgot something... OH YES! The US has parked an army in Germany for 75 years! I dunno, but could this have been a factor in the "no war between European powers" thing? And when we say "war between the UK and Ireland... unthinkable" do we mean that no-one is going to bomb or shoot people in the UK or Ireland to attempt to achieve a political objective in the relationships between those two countr…

>do we mean that no-one is going to bomb or shoot people in the UK or Ireland to attempt to achieve a political objective No, that's not what we mean. War between the UK and the RoI, the actual states involved, is in fact pretty unthinkable.

The RoI did make plans to invade the north in the 60s.

Re: 6th Generation Stealth Fighter: Joint Effort by UK, Japan, Italy and Sweden?

#162

Post by imtringued »

bpodgursky wrote: post #8
MangoCoffee wrote: post #6

i don't know the future of air fighter but this news remind me of Elon Musk saying the fighter jet era is gone. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKJ-uS55mhM

This doesn't seem especially wrong to me. There were a lot of horses after the cavalry era was over, and the cavalry era was over long before the generals realized it. The next war is going to be a drone (low-intensity) and hypersonic missile (high-intensity) war... it's not going to look like Top Gun.

Drones are the equivalent of robotic horses. It's a foolish comparison.

Re: 6th Generation Stealth Fighter: Joint Effort by UK, Japan, Italy and Sweden?

#163

Post by [deleted] »

scoopertrooper wrote: post #147
achow wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the world where transportation staff does not need atleast 1d/week day off.

Crazy idea, some employees take certain days off while others take different days off. You know, like how every other critical industry operates operates, and how public transportation works in countries that don't shut it down once a week.

[deleted]

Re: 6th Generation Stealth Fighter: Joint Effort by UK, Japan, Italy and Sweden?

#164

Post by rjsw »

imtringued wrote: post #146
snicker7 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The last 70 or so years have been the most peaceful in human history. How? The American military and economic hegemony. If you want peace, build more aircraft carriers.

No, it's because after losing WW1 the losers thought they were still being oppressed so they started a new world war. Germany is pretty much the go to case. They lost WW1, then the American hegemony financially repressed Germany through external debt so they had a pretty good reason to start a new war. The death of the idea that power and suppression leads to peace is what has stopped world war 3. When WW2 ended, USA…

The Marshall Plan wasn't the only proposal for what to do about Germany [1].

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morgenthau_Plan

Re: 6th Generation Stealth Fighter: Joint Effort by UK, Japan, Italy and Sweden?

#165

Post by achow »

scoopertrooper wrote: post #147
achow wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the world where transportation staff does not need atleast 1d/week day off.

Crazy idea, some employees take certain days off while others take different days off. You know, like how every other critical industry operates operates, and how public transportation works in countries that don't shut it down once a week.

That is assuming that there is demand for those service in the days where otherwise it would have been shut down (Sun or Fri or Sat).

If a place ~90% shuts down on a particular day, running a skeleton service with limited staff may not be viable due to the fact that most of the infra needs to be nearly 100% operational to support skeleton crews and vehicles.

And also it may involve lot of planning to run skeleton operations (for all you know 10% of the users are sprinkled all over the grid - so which all routes you run the skeleton service, at what frequency etc.).

Re: 6th Generation Stealth Fighter: Joint Effort by UK, Japan, Italy and Sweden?

#166

Post by rjsw »

the-dude wrote: post #107
willvarfar wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is true, and there are great documentaries about how the US messed that up so badly. There was similar lack of faith in the British tigerfish in the 80s. But generally modern torpedos are expected to work effectively and are tested. Sweden is leading the way on the dronification of torpedos.

WWII is such a rabbit hole. What if the Western Allies had working torpedos?

British torpedos worked fine [1], it was just the US ones that didn't.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Taranto

Re: 6th Generation Stealth Fighter: Joint Effort by UK, Japan, Italy and Sweden?

#167

Post by rjsw »

Apocryphon wrote: post #33
ARandomerDude wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not in the defense world. These are sophisticated defense engineering hotspots who collaborate to make up for not having America's money.

Why then and not France, Germany, the Netherlands, etc.?

Dassault doesn't work well in collaborative projects. Germany keeps saying that it will buy lots of aircraft to get a large workshare then scales back the real order.

Re: 6th Generation Stealth Fighter: Joint Effort by UK, Japan, Italy and Sweden?

#168

Post by wombatmobile »

dotancohen wrote: post #133
wombatmobile wrote: post #49

War is in part an expression of technological competitive advantage. Nth generation weaponry is expensive because technology requires the best minds, materials, and facilities that money can buy. But what if for the same money, or less, we could buy something even better? How much does peace cost? Has anybody ever costed it? For example, what could $2 trillion have bought in Iraq, Portland, or Jerusalem if it had bee…

> I know there is no handbook for peace What does peace look like to you? Do people just stop fighting and start loving their neighbours? You mentioned Jerusalem. I'm Israeli, so I'm biased towards one side of the Jerusalem story but let me try to frame the other side of the story as to not play my biases. I probably won't be accurate because my propaganda is different from their propaganda. And I won't reply because…

> What does peace look like to you?

Peace is what the United States has had with Vietnam since 1975.

How can we understand that, when the reason for going to war, at the cost of 58,000 American lives, was that without an intervention, the domino theory predicted that the world order would inevitably collapse?

It didn't.

Vietnam, notwithstanding the pandemic, is a tourist destination where 18 year old American kids have the time of their live in complete safety.

Money for peace would investigate this outcome with the aim of advancing our theoretical knowledge so we might get it right next time, in time to avoid conflict.

Re: 6th Generation Stealth Fighter: Joint Effort by UK, Japan, Italy and Sweden?

#169

Post by yyyk »

imtringued wrote: post #146
snicker7 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The last 70 or so years have been the most peaceful in human history. How? The American military and economic hegemony. If you want peace, build more aircraft carriers.

No, it's because after losing WW1 the losers thought they were still being oppressed so they started a new world war. Germany is pretty much the go to case. They lost WW1, then the American hegemony financially repressed Germany through external debt so they had a pretty good reason to start a new war. The death of the idea that power and suppression leads to peace is what has stopped world war 3. When WW2 ended, USA…

These are common myths. First, the WW1 post-inflation was due to an intentional German decision to inflate payments it could have easily paid (and losing actually more money in the process).

Second, the WW2 settlement was far more punishing to Germany than the WW1 settlement. The country was conquered, lost more territory than in WW1, split up and multiple diaspora populations were then pushed in.

Re: 6th Generation Stealth Fighter: Joint Effort by UK, Japan, Italy and Sweden?

#170

Post by reducesuffering »

_abox wrote: post #132
kryptiskt wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't affect the EU as a whole. Sweden is skeptical about giving EU that role anyway, they're working for closer strategic ties to the US, and have signed agreements to that effect. They already chose Patriot over a German/French project for air defense.

They've never been team players. Don't forget they were happily building Nazi tank parts in WWII while playing nice with the allies. On the other hand, many EU countries have picked US fighters over Swedish offerings like the Gripen. It does go both ways. I'd love to see the EU more militarily independent from the US. Especially because they tend to start wars for economic reasons. Sponsoring the military industrial…

> We also view joining the military more as a job and less as a duty to our country.

That isn’t a good thing. See the former Afghan National Army (ANA)

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