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Video of Tesla FSD almost hitting pedestrian receives DMCA takedown

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Re: Video of Tesla FSD almost hitting pedestrian receives DMCA takedown

#421

Post by roywiggins »

Draiken wrote: post #163
oefrha wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Drunk drivers on the road are… “fine”? Not sure where you live.

Of course it's not fine in that sense. What I mean is that you don't see a headline on news outlets or twitter hashtags trending for every drunk driver fatality or crash that happens. Which for me tells that collectively, we are fine with it. We accept it as ordinary, as crazy as it may be.

Yes, the societal tolerance of vehicular homicide generally is probably too high.

That doesn't mean we need to endorse putting more cars on the road that sporadically act like drunks.

Re: Video of Tesla FSD almost hitting pedestrian receives DMCA takedown

#422

Post by weezin »

I think I've seen a similar video in a previous FSD version and the car tries to swerve into the concrete pillar, so I think this person was trying to stress test that same situation, which I guess you can say it improved. I'm assuming this situation had something to do with the pillar again. Who knows though the reroute was really weird.

Re: Video of Tesla FSD almost hitting pedestrian receives DMCA takedown

#423

Post by quantified »

yunohn wrote: post #347
ChicagoBoy11 wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm actually in complete agreement! What sticks out to me is your assessment that the flight environment is "embarrassingly simple from an automation perspective", which I agree as well (as compared to cars). And yet despite that simplicity and decades at it, we still run it with an incredible robust infrastructure to have a human oversee the tech. We have super robust procedures for checking and cross-checking the a…

> we still run it with an incredible robust infrastructure to have a human oversee the tech Airplanes are responsible for 200-300+ lives at a time, so it’s quite incomparable to road vehicles. Of course it makes sense to have human oversight in case something goes wrong. On the flip side, the average car driver is not very skilled nor equipped to deal with most surprises - hence the ever present danger of road traffi…

I’m reminded of GWB’s “soft bigotry of low expectations”. (Even if you didn’t like him, it remains apt.)

Sorry, most drivers I’ve seen avoid the kid that follows the bouncing ball into the street and all the other random events. A few drivers are crap. But justifying automation based on that few is lazy and incorrect. Elon is just full of his own crap on Tesla’s autopilot.

Re: Video of Tesla FSD almost hitting pedestrian receives DMCA takedown

#424

Post by macinjosh »

ChrisKnott wrote: post #63

Maximise the video and watch the left hand HUD pane from 0:10 to 0:11. The dotted black line coming from the front of the car (which I am assuming is the intended route) quickly snaps from straight ahead, to a hair pin right, to a normal right turn. Ignoring the fact that the right turn happened to be into a pedestrian crossing with people on it - what was the car even trying to do? The sat-nav shows it should have j…

Hairpin turn usually denotes a 180deg turn. Not 90deg.

Re: Video of Tesla FSD almost hitting pedestrian receives DMCA takedown

#425

Post by lanstin »

sidlls wrote: post #141
300bps wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speaking as someone who believed all the hype about having fully autonomous cars by 2020, I think the truth is that it is orders of magnitude harder than we thought it was and that we are orders of magnitude less capable than we thought we were.

Something every software engineer should learn before their insufferable egos solidify.

Maybe a good interview question for experienced developers should be "tell us about a time when you attempted something in software and failed at it." In my case it was being given a 10 or 20 KLOC C server that had memory leaks all over and segfaults all over the place (written by a friend) and told to make it prod ready.

Re: Video of Tesla FSD almost hitting pedestrian receives DMCA takedown

#426

Post by lanstin »

taneq wrote: post #77
ChrisKnott wrote: post #63

Maximise the video and watch the left hand HUD pane from 0:10 to 0:11. The dotted black line coming from the front of the car (which I am assuming is the intended route) quickly snaps from straight ahead, to a hair pin right, to a normal right turn. Ignoring the fact that the right turn happened to be into a pedestrian crossing with people on it - what was the car even trying to do? The sat-nav shows it should have j…

On the one hand I applaud Tesla for being so open about what their system is thinking with their visualisations. That could be interpreted to show a deep belief in their system's capabilities. On the other hand, it's always terrified me how jittery any version of AutoPilot's perception of the world is. Would you let your car be driven by someone with zero object permanence, 10/20 vision and only a vague idea of the e…

And orange cones - the orange cone detection team at Tesla is outstanding. Garbage cans are also pretty accurate. Not sure why they detect garbage cans but not parked cars, but that's just me.

Re: Video of Tesla FSD almost hitting pedestrian receives DMCA takedown

#427

Post by lanstin »

taneq wrote: post #196
epistasis wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The extremely poor performance of the visualizations are disturbing to me. It's also completely wasted space on the display that I wish were devoted to driving directions instead of telling me what I can already see outside of the car.

I think whether it's wasted space or not depends entirely on the reliability of the system. For a many-9's system which for all intents and purposes isn't going to fail dangerously, I agree, the visualisation is just peacocking. For a beta-quality system, knowing what the car is thinking is an important driver feedback which gives additional warning before it does something really stupid.

Yeah, you know to pay attention when the lane edges drop out of the console.

Re: Video of Tesla FSD almost hitting pedestrian receives DMCA takedown

#428

Post by tuatoru »

ddoolin wrote: post #272
angelzen wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That could be selection bias. The [edit, was '99%'] vast majority of the time the car does the boring thing are not click-worthy. Have you driven a Tesla for a reasonably long period of time? There is a bigger lesson in there: click-driven video selection creates a very warped view of the world. The video stream is dominated by 'interesting' events, ignoring the boringly mundane that overwhelmingly dominates real lif…

Yes, for 4 years I did, and what they're saying is absolutely true. It desperately tries to lock on to something when it loses whatever it's focused on. Diligent owners just learn those scenarios so you know when they're coming. Others may not be so lucky. For example, short, wavy hills in the road would often crest just high enough that once it couldn't see on to the other side, it would immediately start veering in…

Re the edit: also, if it's a road the car has been on before, why doesn't it remember it?

Re: Video of Tesla FSD almost hitting pedestrian receives DMCA takedown

#429

Post by roywiggins »

oneplane wrote: post #276
dundarious wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla’s “FSD” is only a little bit better than drunk drivers, whom we punish severely whenever caught, even before any accident occurs. The fact that enforcement is patchy is irrelevant — drunk driving is deemed serious enough to be an automatic infraction. Also, most of the time drunk drivers are not actually that bad at moment-to-moment driving. That’s why almost everyone worldwide used to do it! You can still do t…

This assumes FSD-to-drunk-driver analogy means FSD has to be a drunk driver (or a student driver as commented elsewhere) all the time, so always making the bad judgement and slow reaction like a drunk driver would. I think that some form of responsibility has to be assigned to the FSD in some way (the manufacturer? the user? some other entity or a combination?) regardless but I haven't found any clear case of how tha…

> It also makes me wonder how we would measure or verify a human driver with intermittent drunkenness. Imagine 5 seconds out of every minute you temporarily turn into a drunk driver.

Certain medical conditions are analogous to this. This is handled in various ways, including doctors reporting you to the state DMV and suspending your license if your condition is not very well controlled.

https://www.epilepsy.com/driving-laws

Re: Video of Tesla FSD almost hitting pedestrian receives DMCA takedown

#430

Post by nautilius »

tsimionescu wrote: post #296
cronix wrote: post #159

I think the whole dream/goal of building a self driving car on top of a system completely designed for manual human interpretation and input is asinine, and that's before you even consider the complexity of adding other humans manually driving or suddenly walking in front of your car from a blind spot. Instead of building a digital system from the ground up, we are forcing manufacturers to come up with tech to read s…

When your technology starts working only when the entire world changes dramatically, you probably don't have a great technology idea. In particular, road maintenance is already expensive and often left to rot. Still, current driving is relatively robust - even if a few signs are damaged or go missing, no major issues will occur. Road signs keep working even during storms, even if there is no power, even if something…

>When your technology starts working only when the entire world changes dramatically, you probably don't have a great technology idea.

Exactly! No wonder those pesky horseless carriages never caught on!

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