It seems like a bit of an overreaction. Is shipbuilding that important to France?
That's part of it, but it's mostly a larger political play around France and Europe being less dependent on the USA as a partner around the world. France has been pushing on 'strategic autonomy' ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_autonomy ) for quite some time now, and this played right into their hands as an opportunity of the USA not being reliable. Whether or not it's true, or if this will work, will take a…
France Recalls Its Ambassadors to the U.S. and Australia over a Submarine Deal
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Re: France Recalls Its Ambassadors to the U.S. and Australia over a Submarine Deal
#52It looks like the vaunted experience of Biden and his team has not translated into any sort of deft policymaking, particularly in foreign policy. The messy pullout out of Afghanistan, followed by this scuttling of the deal in progress between Australia and France have reinforced the notion that Uncle Sam can not be relied upon, even by his closest allies. Pretty surefire way of helping fence-sitters become client sta…
You do know the messy pull out of Afghanistan was a peace deal agreed to by prior governments (without the consent of the Aphgani government no less) could they have done better, absolutely but the way you are framing it is hardly unbiased. As for countries deciding to not rely upon America, that has long been a desire, but the previous administration drove it home like a stake through the heart. Having lived outside…
Re: France Recalls Its Ambassadors to the U.S. and Australia over a Submarine Deal
#53It seems like a bit of an overreaction. Is shipbuilding that important to France?
Recalling an ambassador over a 1-2% of GDP slight seems pretty proportionate. It is a lot of money.
Re: France Recalls Its Ambassadors to the U.S. and Australia over a Submarine Deal
#54Re: France Recalls Its Ambassadors to the U.S. and Australia over a Submarine Deal
#55I wonder what French think now about their cancelling of the Mistral deal with Russia [0] under American pressure [1]. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mistral-class_amphibious_assau... [1] https://www.reuters.com/article/us-france-russia-mistral-idU...
Re: France Recalls Its Ambassadors to the U.S. and Australia over a Submarine Deal
#56Re: France Recalls Its Ambassadors to the U.S. and Australia over a Submarine Deal
#57It’s pretty much an Anglosphere FU to the EU here, but the stakes are one countries military industrial complex vs another. With nuclear tipped deterrents all around the world why are we so determined to play these power games? Not that it’s anything new of course. It reminds me of the future played out in Dune where nobody can act openly against each other so everyone is trained in espionage - what are those subs go…
Re: France Recalls Its Ambassadors to the U.S. and Australia over a Submarine Deal
#58It looks like the vaunted experience of Biden and his team has not translated into any sort of deft policymaking, particularly in foreign policy. The messy pullout out of Afghanistan, followed by this scuttling of the deal in progress between Australia and France have reinforced the notion that Uncle Sam can not be relied upon, even by his closest allies. Pretty surefire way of helping fence-sitters become client sta…
Re: France Recalls Its Ambassadors to the U.S. and Australia over a Submarine Deal
#59It is super laughable because the nuclear powered version that they are building for themselves was a fixed bid contract for something like 10 billion for 8 subs.. and the Australian contract keeps going up and up something like 35 billion for ten subs. The diesel sub for Australia is based on the nuclear sub that they signed the fixed bid contract for. Anybody with half brain can tell they are making up the lost of…
French contract took 4 years to be negotiated, the US one less than 6 months, in total secret with no public check… expect big surprises at the end, US weapons program are not known to never overrun their costs
Re: France Recalls Its Ambassadors to the U.S. and Australia over a Submarine Deal
#60It is super laughable because the nuclear powered version that they are building for themselves was a fixed bid contract for something like 10 billion for 8 subs.. and the Australian contract keeps going up and up something like 35 billion for ten subs. The diesel sub for Australia is based on the nuclear sub that they signed the fixed bid contract for. Anybody with half brain can tell they are making up the lost of…