Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin • Hacker News Board

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#511

Post by lotusmars » Fri, Sep 17, 2021, 4:13 PM UTC

jhgb wrote: post #498

lotusmars wrote: post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All people allowed to take part in elections are sanctioned by Kremlin. Try to sign up as a candidate and best case you'll get rejected, worst case beaten, bullied, jailed or murdered.

I have no doubt that what you're saying is true. Still, that doesn't make the difference between lack of choice and illusion of choice any bigger.

You can create a political party in US. In Russia even attempting it will get you jailed or murdered.

It's still weird how on the West it's customary to compare the uncomparable. In Chechnya (or Iran) all gay people are lynched without exception and women are treated as slaves. The West has its share of homophobia and misoginy but it's not even close, not by a thousand miles.

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#512

Post by jjj3j3j3j3 » Fri, Sep 17, 2021, 4:15 PM UTC

Putin is the only president who spend many many months living in a bunker 24x7, hiding from the coronavirus. I rarely seen a more fearful person than Putin.

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#513

Post by maxwell » Fri, Sep 17, 2021, 4:16 PM UTC

lerela wrote: post #300

maxwell wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which features? getUserMedia is now supported in WebViews, so one can build, for instance, a FaceTime competitor that runs on Chrome on iOS, where it wasn't possible a few months ago. But the Fullscreen API still isn't supported, a blow to the web-based FT competitor. What else?

Not a feature per se, but being in the process of building a PWA for iOS with access to the camera, the fact that the authorization dialog pops up every time the app is opened (meaning that the permission is not saved even if the PWA has not been modified) looks like a deliberate attempt to make this technology not truly viable, because it really provides terrible UX.

Yeah, I've run into that too.

Seems to affect most/all permissions, e.g. https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=213468

Looks like persistent permissions might be in the iOS 15 beta though: https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=228317

Also appears that they're implementing the Permissions API:

https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=229504

https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=229590

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#514

Post by whimsicalism » Fri, Sep 17, 2021, 4:18 PM UTC

tablespoon wrote: post #508

whimsicalism wrote: post #502

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Actually, if those organizations had to run the NY Post story, the US would be closer to a sham than it is. Hm, guess I'd like to live in a sham democracy then, as blocking me from sending certain political thoughts in my chat messages is unacceptable to me. I'd rather have this power in the hands of publicly-sanctioned, rules-based agents than arbitrary private actors who can interfere with me at any time for what…

> Hm, guess I'd like to live in a sham democracy then, as blocking me from sending certain political thoughts in my chat messages is unacceptable to me. No one's blocking you. Go put a sign up in your front yard, just don't complain your rights are being trampled when I don't let you put up a sign in my yard. Other people have rights too, and that includes the right not to cooperate with you.

Yes, this is a good exemplification of the "freedom as non-interference" view that Pettit criticizes. This conception has become very popular in the 20th century, especially among libertarians.

The image of society given by your picture does not resemble real life. Facebook and I are not equal actors akin to neighbors disputing over what gets put in their front yard.

It is this recognition that we are not equal neighbors that is the reason we have labor protections, minimum wage laws, campaign finance laws, etc.

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#515

Post by maxwell » Fri, Sep 17, 2021, 4:19 PM UTC

modeless wrote: post #404

lerela wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not a feature per se, but being in the process of building a PWA for iOS with access to the camera, the fact that the authorization dialog pops up every time the app is opened (meaning that the permission is not saved even if the PWA has not been modified) looks like a deliberate attempt to make this technology not truly viable, because it really provides terrible UX.

Same with geolocation permission. A maps app that has to ask permission for your location every time is at a major disadvantage.

Might be fixed in the iOS 15 beta.

Also could be workaround, but looks complicated:

https://stackoverflow.com/questions/39665367/how-to-prevent-...

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#516

Post by vzaliva » Fri, Sep 17, 2021, 4:21 PM UTC

This proves one thing - we need non-centralized application distribution mechaism which could not be censored. Neither Apple or Google or any 3rd party should control what I install on my phone.

I know that unlike iOS, Android users can install programs directly or via alternative app stores on their phones. Direct installation is burdensome and does not provide updates. Alternative app stores (e.g. Amazon) are also controlled by corporations. We need a trully distributed censon-proof app store!

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#517

Post by jjtheblunt » Fri, Sep 17, 2021, 4:23 PM UTC

Is the functionality of the app not reproducible with perhaps Discord or similar?

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#518

Post by nzmsv » Fri, Sep 17, 2021, 4:23 PM UTC

tremon wrote: post #389

nzmsv wrote: post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So in the US there was a big kerfuffle about how Russia paid for some Facebook ads and interfered with the election. Russia bad. Here you have an app that literally tells people how to vote . This is pro-US, so again, Russia bad.

This is a Russian app, overtly tied to a Russian political figure, explaining to Russian citizens how to act in their Russian election. You don't see any difference with Russia using fake US accounts to tell US citizens how to act in the US election?

By the same argument: Facebook is a US company, so Russia is innocent.

Just because someone uses a front to hide behind does not mean they are not behind the activity.

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#519

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Sep 17, 2021, 4:23 PM UTC

latexr wrote: post #266

From Tim Cook’s twitter bio[1]: > “Life's most persistent and urgent question is, 'What are you doing for others?'” - MLK Considering this, HKmap.live[2], and Telegram[3], he seems to be mighty confused about who “others” refers to in that quote. [1]: https://twitter.com/tim_cook [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HKmap.live [3]: https://www.iphoneincanada.ca/news/apple-telegram-belarus/

[deleted]

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#520

Post by emiliosic » Fri, Sep 17, 2021, 4:23 PM UTC

tablespoon wrote: post #408

oliwarner wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except that by this point, all this is expected behaviour. If companies don't want to be complicit in these crimes, they need to extricate themselves from the country and cut all ties. If they do want to put profit ahead of everything else, then whatever, but you don't get to defend them as doing the right thing for their employees. They're enabling the whole situation. [Edit to bring in a sister question] "Why don't…

> If they do want to put profit ahead of everything else, then whatever, but you don't get to defend them as doing the right thing for their employees. They're enabling the whole situation. IMHO, cooperating with an authoritarian regime in this way should be illegal, sort of like a sanctions violation. Cook and Pachai should go to jail for this. That consequence might clarify their thinking a little.

'authoritarian regime' is a slippery slope. There can be clear human violations, but at what point does a government become authoritarian? USA has plenty of violations on its shoulders, perhaps complicit in many others. I would not call it authoritarian but it has been repressive (Citing USA as a clear example, not picking on particular politics). Genocide is distinctively clear from freedom of expression, so by no means should this be constructed to justify that. A war has many battles, so perhaps in this case there would be compromises. Why these companies are working with China needs a deeper discussion.