Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin • Hacker News Board

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#401

Post by baybal2 » Fri, Sep 17, 2021, 2:16 PM UTC

anticodon wrote: post #394

baybal2 wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, Brin's $100B can arm a lot of Russians. $100B/$60k USD = 1.6 million soldiers feed, and armed for a year. If he is a patriotic Russia who he claims himself to be, he should do that instead.

Never seen that Brin stated he's patriot of Russia. Do you have any proofs? Besides, arm who? Arm us, Russians to do what? Destroy our own country like e.g. Ukraine did? So that western corporations destroy all the industry (suppress competition and create bigger market for western goods), destroy even agriculture (US and EU farmers would be happy to supply their food to a new market, keeping agriculture production i…

> Besides, arm who? Arm us, Russians to do what? Destroy our own country like e.g. Ukraine did?

Ukraine is by no means "destroyed," it is reinvigorated, it's renewed. It went from a post-soviet satrapy into the modern world. I want Russia to follow its path.

> I really hope that our people are not stupid to fall into this trap.

Are you perhaps a Putinist?

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#402

Post by tailspin2019 » Fri, Sep 17, 2021, 2:16 PM UTC

np- wrote: post #248

Andrew_nenakhov wrote: post #195

It is important to note, that in Apple's case the problem is made worse by the fact that on iOS there are no ways to install the app bypassing the appstore. That makes Apple's cooperation with dictators and authocrats so much worse for their users. You know, the people Apple claims to care about and 'protect'.

To be pedantic, Apple does allow Progressive Web Apps which can bypass the App Store. (The Xbox cloud gaming app is a big one that goes down this path) Note that I don’t support at all this decision to cooperate with an autocrat.

Not sure why you're being downvoted so heavily. Nothing you said was wrong.

As per my other comment, I don't tend to agree that PWA is a decent alternative but that's a different point altogether.

PWAs do exist on iOS, as you correctly point out.

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#403

Post by busymom0 » Fri, Sep 17, 2021, 2:17 PM UTC

tailspin2019 wrote: post #346

When watching this week's iPhone keynote, it occurred to me that while they were showing all their environmental credentials, which seems to be given more prominence every time, what I'd really like to see is a slide on "supporting freedom and democracy". Apple do have the resources, influence and brand equity to make some strides here and it doesn't have to be completely philanthropic either - it can make business s…

I liked how after showing all their environmental credentials, they released a phone which is basically the same thing as last year and none of their devices allow easy battery changes and they actively make it harder for third parties to do it.

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#404

Post by modeless » Fri, Sep 17, 2021, 2:17 PM UTC

lerela wrote: post #300

maxwell wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which features? getUserMedia is now supported in WebViews, so one can build, for instance, a FaceTime competitor that runs on Chrome on iOS, where it wasn't possible a few months ago. But the Fullscreen API still isn't supported, a blow to the web-based FT competitor. What else?

Not a feature per se, but being in the process of building a PWA for iOS with access to the camera, the fact that the authorization dialog pops up every time the app is opened (meaning that the permission is not saved even if the PWA has not been modified) looks like a deliberate attempt to make this technology not truly viable, because it really provides terrible UX.

Same with geolocation permission. A maps app that has to ask permission for your location every time is at a major disadvantage.

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#405

Post by iakov » Fri, Sep 17, 2021, 2:18 PM UTC

leesalminen wrote: post #379

ipaddr wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes Google pulling out instead of censoring search results and spying on users for the government made things better for people in China. Apple scan your photos. Tells you what apps you are allowed to install and charges you extra for all of that. Whatever type of person is left on the platform is more likely to be going through stockholm syndrome and wouldn't be in a situation to make a political statement.

Every cloud service that holds your photos in a non-e2ee way (read: Google, FB, et. Al.) scans your photos. They’re all afraid of the .gov accusing them of holding illegal content.

This again.

None of them do that on my device, that I paid with my money. No cloud service wastes my CPU cycles and batteries to report me to authorities.

It's apples to oranges, sorry for the pun. Please stop comparing what Google, MS and Dropbox do to what Apple planned to do.

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#406

Post by vladkovalev » Fri, Sep 17, 2021, 2:18 PM UTC

Sad times!

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#407

Post by cageface » Fri, Sep 17, 2021, 2:21 PM UTC

avianlyric wrote: post #71

yawaworht1978 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have they ever explained why the csam would be implemented? Apple bends just fine if the government is powerful enough and the marketplace is big enough, see China.

In their defence (I say this with some trepidation), if they want to see their products in another country, then they need to play by that countries rules. Regardless of how we in the west feel about those rules. If a Chinese company came to the US or EU and ignored US or EU rules and lawful directives from government, we would quite rightly be up in arms about that. With regards to CSAM, I think the same applies. Af…

Of course Apple is going to play by the rules of the jurisdictions they want to sell their products in. That's why their reassurances that they would never bend to government pressure on their CSAM plans were so worthless.

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#408

Post by tablespoon » Fri, Sep 17, 2021, 2:21 PM UTC

oliwarner wrote: post #253

viktorcode wrote: post #85

Reuters doesn't report this, but the government officials threatened the companies (Apple and Google) with jail time for their employees yesterday. After that the companies finally conceded. There's a short video fragment from the meeting of the government officials and the companies representatives. It's worth watching, especially if you come from a democratic nation. Letting your Russian employees be persecuted don…

Except that by this point, all this is expected behaviour. If companies don't want to be complicit in these crimes, they need to extricate themselves from the country and cut all ties. If they do want to put profit ahead of everything else, then whatever, but you don't get to defend them as doing the right thing for their employees. They're enabling the whole situation. [Edit to bring in a sister question] "Why don't…

> If they do want to put profit ahead of everything else, then whatever, but you don't get to defend them as doing the right thing for their employees. They're enabling the whole situation.

IMHO, cooperating with an authoritarian regime in this way should be illegal, sort of like a sanctions violation. Cook and Pachai should go to jail for this. That consequence might clarify their thinking a little.

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#409

Post by codedokode » Fri, Sep 17, 2021, 2:25 PM UTC

Veen wrote: post #376

codedokode wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Such PWA is easy to block because the government can block a website with it. A native app can use push notifications (which are encrypted) to receive data and the only way to block such an app would be to block access to Apple's servers completely.

> Such PWA is easy to block because the government can block a website with it. They can also block whichever server is hosting the API native apps connect to. Doesn't seem much of a win for native on that front, unless the data is stored permanently on device.

The app in question ("Navalny app") has a blog and voting recommendations. You can distribute information with app updates or use push notifications to transmit data (for example, new API server IP address and public key).

For example, when government tried to block Telegram, it used push notifications to send addresses of new (not yet blocked) servers to the app (of course, you can send different addresses to different devices). It helped Telegram to evade blocking and it worked.

As I understand, you cannot do it with PWA, especially if the browser doesn't encrypt DNS requests.

So with native apps the only way to block them is either block App Store completely or push on Apple to remove the app.

If the browser supports encrypted DNS and hiding SNI (which needs TLS >= 1.3) then there are chances to evade blocking with PWA. But as I understand, Safari doesn't use encrypted DNS by default (I wonder why).

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#410

Post by bronzeage » Fri, Sep 17, 2021, 2:30 PM UTC

hnlmorg wrote: post #135

oleganza wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm no fan of political power in Russia (my home country) or anywhere else in the world, but come on with this double-standard bullshit. Every country does exactly the same thing. Just look at how much suppression of "alternative voices" happens in real time all over the world and what apps were banned, accounts closed etc. Jan 6 was painted as bad as 9/11, ffs. It may be staged differently so it's not the "governmen…

> Every country does exactly the same thing. They don't though. Sure, there is some level of corruption and media bias in every country but few countries have dictatorships which will threaten imprisonment (or worse) of anyone who speaks out against the current government. However I do agree with your secondary point that the solution isn't to create a tech vacuum, it's to create technology that can't be controlled b…

The U.S doesn't just threaten, they imprison innocent protesters and even grandmas from Jan 6 peaceful protests, while vandals from BLM protests which caused real damage to businesses walk free.

From the outside, U.S looks just as bad if not worse than Russia right now. Your media and democratic party is getting on par with authoritarian regimes and I'd argue its even worse because naive uninformed people still think they live in a free democracy.