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Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

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Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#451

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is this even relevant? You always have to keep heads of your enemies down. That's basic common sense. Dictatorships are the enemies of the Free World. Or, do you think they are friends, perhaps? They are your enemies, and you keep their economies ruined.

-1 Point for faiure to distinguish between the mobsters in charge and general population -1 point for dillusional idea that cuba is an enemy or a threat to the us or anyone fir that matter -1 point fir lack of self-reflection on how free we are becoming -1 point for cruelty

I am not cruel, I am a follower of strong humanist beliefs. Life in shit is worse than death, way worse. I will at least give people a choice of two. If you force people to live in shit, just so they can live, you are cruel.

I am very reflective. I see the West turning into a serial facilitator of rogue, and fascist regimes for some "special relationships." If they deserve fire for that, I think they really should. It's been 20 years since 9/11, and USA is still sucking up to the Saudi Regime for really nothing of benefit — this is what I will call a real lack of self-reflection.

Cuba is not a threat, but it very much will be if you leave its neck out of your hands for a second. The Cuban state is the biggest threat to Cuban people. Thank them for good healthcare, but then smack them good for near starving their people despite Cuba being chock full of agricultural land for a country of 10M, inventing silly excuses for it, and jailing anybody pointing a finger on that.

I see the mob in charge, very much see. I personally knew people who lost all their livelihood to having their business robbed, and seized. The general population don't want you, the West to keep feeding Putin's bottomless mouth. They are not idiots. They see every gram of food the West gives the regime, the regime uses to grow bigger, and stronger, and then bite, and rob them even more.

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#452
post #268

Reuters doesn't report this, but the government officials threatened the companies (Apple and Google) with jail time for their employees yesterday. After that the companies finally conceded. There's a short video fragment from the meeting of the government officials and the companies representatives. It's worth watching, especially if you come from a democratic nation. Letting your Russian employees be persecuted don…

I don’t know what people expect here. Companies can’t really stand up to governments, especially autocratic ones overseas. Apple’s only option would be to leave Russia completely. That might be the right thing to do but it’s a tough sell to shareholders.

This hurts Apple. Remember, Apple's entire argument for CSAM scanning is that they would resist pressure to modify the system.

Obviously they won't if they fold this easy.

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#453
post #266

From Tim Cook’s twitter bio[1]: > “Life's most persistent and urgent question is, 'What are you doing for others?'” - MLK Considering this, HKmap.live[2], and Telegram[3], he seems to be mighty confused about who “others” refers to in that quote. [1]: https://twitter.com/tim_cook [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HKmap.live [3]: https://www.iphoneincanada.ca/news/apple-telegram-belarus/

Apparently, privacy is only a human right when your government considers you a human. Otherwise, Apple takes no issue enterprising on your lack of freedom.

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#454
post #4

Apple’s acquiescence to the Russian government’s demand to remove this app was predicted when it first came to light. Exactly at the same time as Apple was assuring world+dog that it would never acquiesce to governmental pressure to extend and expand the scope of its CSAM scanning tool on user’s devices.

Thank you for this. I had a number of HN users insinuate that I was wrong to warn that Apple could expand beyond CSAM scanning and begin scanning for other material. People seemed to take a very firm stance that no, that could never ever ever happen and I'm wrong to even suggest the possibility. This incident is more than enough for me to remain concerned that that will happen.

More arguments that Apple will go further than CSAM were presented by Snowden: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28309202.

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#455

Reuters doesn't report this, but the government officials threatened the companies (Apple and Google) with jail time for their employees yesterday. After that the companies finally conceded. There's a short video fragment from the meeting of the government officials and the companies representatives. It's worth watching, especially if you come from a democratic nation. Letting your Russian employees be persecuted don…

As a Russian I say they should have hired "martyrs" from opposition onto the jailable positions. Not having "martyrs" on these positions saved Putin's regime a lot of face, of actually persecuting a famous companys' local division directors for not censoring the internet. Now they know how to force these companies to do what they want, and do it quickly.

that's really clever. Navalny himself shows that such martyrs exist, brave enough to return after being poisoned. But what if they arrest everyone and not just the martyrs?

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#456
post #389
post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So in the US there was a big kerfuffle about how Russia paid for some Facebook ads and interfered with the election. Russia bad. Here you have an app that literally tells people how to vote . This is pro-US, so again, Russia bad.

This is a Russian app, overtly tied to a Russian political figure, explaining to Russian citizens how to act in their Russian election. You don't see any difference with Russia using fake US accounts to tell US citizens how to act in the US election?

> Donald J. Trump and 18 of his associates had at least 140 contacts with Russian nationals and WikiLeaks, or their intermediaries, during the 2016 campaign and presidential transition.

Sorry, wrong person, 1 sec...

Navalny:

1) Studied in Yale 2) Supported by all western media as a hero at any time 3) Received large amounts in Bitcoin 4) Maria Pevchikh (MI6)

etc.

Looks like very Rissian polititian, and very pro-russian activity.

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#457

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Following laws in countries that one is operating is expected. However, following laws that contradict one’s marketing materials will lead to some understandable questions about those “values”.

Well do you have a copy of Apple's marketing material from Russia saying that won't censor the app store if compelled to do so by the Russian government? It not reasonable to hold Apple to pledges they've made to western customers, when talking about a service provided to non-western customers. As much as we wish it wasn't true, the scope for providing privacy is substantially greater in the west than it is elsewhere…

> Well do you have a copy of Apple's marketing material from Russia saying that won't censor the app store if compelled to do so by the Russian government?

Создавая продукты Apple, мы прежде всего заботимся о том, чтобы защитить вашу личную информацию и предоставить вам контроль над ней. [0]

Which translates to:

When we create Apple products, our primary concern is to protect your data and give you control over it.

[0] https://www.apple.com/ru/privacy/

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#458

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Money is money. Thats sad but predictable. The future web should be decentralized. The web is already decentralized, by design. It's just that people are all flocking to the exact same services and providers for "convenience". Nobody has to use Google services, or buy an iPhone and use iPhone apps. Google isn't the web. What the web needs is to be distributed in order to be more resilient or even evade censorship.…

> The web is already decentralized, by design. App stores and Youtube are not decentralized. See: Peertube and Linux repositories.

App stores and Youtube are not the web.

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#459

Reuters doesn't report this, but the government officials threatened the companies (Apple and Google) with jail time for their employees yesterday. After that the companies finally conceded. There's a short video fragment from the meeting of the government officials and the companies representatives. It's worth watching, especially if you come from a democratic nation. Letting your Russian employees be persecuted don…

Except that by this point, all this is expected behaviour. If companies don't want to be complicit in these crimes, they need to extricate themselves from the country and cut all ties. If they do want to put profit ahead of everything else, then whatever, but you don't get to defend them as doing the right thing for their employees. They're enabling the whole situation. [Edit to bring in a sister question] "Why don't…

Some of Americas closest allies are authoritarian regimes. Why would anyone expect profit moticated companies like Google or Apple to have higher moral standards than the elected representative US goverment where it operates from itself?

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#460

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except that by this point, all this is expected behaviour. If companies don't want to be complicit in these crimes, they need to extricate themselves from the country and cut all ties. If they do want to put profit ahead of everything else, then whatever, but you don't get to defend them as doing the right thing for their employees. They're enabling the whole situation. [Edit to bring in a sister question] "Why don't…

> If they do want to put profit ahead of everything else, then whatever, but you don't get to defend them as doing the right thing for their employees. They're enabling the whole situation. IMHO, cooperating with an authoritarian regime in this way should be illegal, sort of like a sanctions violation. Cook and Pachai should go to jail for this. That consequence might clarify their thinking a little.

Hmmm.

Withdraw the app and you go to jail. Don’t withdraw the app and your Russian employees go to jail

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