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Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

reuters.com

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Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#301

Post by Grustaf »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #277
Grustaf wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course you can have terms of use for things you sell, I don't know why you would think otherwise. In this case it IS linked to iCloud though, as you probably know. Images are only scanned on their way to iCloud, and they won't be scanned if you don't use iCloud.

Terms of use are totally different - they allow you to sue a person if they use it againt the terms, and your ability to sue based on them is going to be very limited. Putting in the TOE of a car: " you are not allowed to drive kids in it" will not be enforceable. In this case the company retains direct control over your property, and changed what it does after you bought it and paid for it.

I really don’t understand why americans are so obsessed with “my property”. I guess it’s a cultural thing.

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#302

Post by [deleted] »

maxwell wrote: post #283
cageface wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To an extent they do but they've refused to implement a lot of important features in iOS safari that are needed for fully capable PWAs.

Which features? getUserMedia is now supported in WebViews, so one can build, for instance, a FaceTime competitor that runs on Chrome on iOS, where it wasn't possible a few months ago. But the Fullscreen API still isn't supported, a blow to the web-based FT competitor. What else?

[deleted]

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#303

Post by simondotau »

cageface wrote: post #264
np- wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be pedantic, Apple does allow Progressive Web Apps which can bypass the App Store. (The Xbox cloud gaming app is a big one that goes down this path) Note that I don’t support at all this decision to cooperate with an autocrat.

To an extent they do but they've refused to implement a lot of important features in iOS safari that are needed for fully capable PWAs.

Specifically, could you list features that would be relevant to a PWA that takes your electoral division as input and returns information on who to vote for?

Honestly I'm confused that if a PWA is a viable solution, why this isn't just a website?

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#304

Post by Grustaf »

heavyset_go wrote: post #280
Grustaf wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The police will only be involved after their scanner has found 30 matches and Apple’s reviewer has manually concluded that it actually is CSAM, so I don’t see how the police is really relevant? If HOA means home owners association, I don’t see the connection. They can’t influence Apple either.

> * Apple’s reviewer has manually concluded that it actually is CSAM* There is no manual review of the image by Apple employees. What is viewed is a derivative image, which is scaled down and blurred. It would be trivial for someone to use legal pornographic images and put it through a NeuralHash collision generator, which upon viewing the scaled down derivative image, would look like CSAM.

If that’s what you’re worried about, then if people have physical control over your phone they could just upload CSAM to your FB or Google photos from it.

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#305

Post by avianlyric »

hypothesis wrote: post #74
avianlyric wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In their defence (I say this with some trepidation), if they want to see their products in another country, then they need to play by that countries rules. Regardless of how we in the west feel about those rules. If a Chinese company came to the US or EU and ignored US or EU rules and lawful directives from government, we would quite rightly be up in arms about that. With regards to CSAM, I think the same applies. Af…

Following laws in countries that one is operating is expected. However, following laws that contradict one’s marketing materials will lead to some understandable questions about those “values”.

Well do you have a copy of Apple's marketing material from Russia saying that won't censor the app store if compelled to do so by the Russian government?

It not reasonable to hold Apple to pledges they've made to western customers, when talking about a service provided to non-western customers.

As much as we wish it wasn't true, the scope for providing privacy is substantially greater in the west than it is elsewhere.

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#306

Post by keewee7 »

np- wrote: post #248
Andrew_nenakhov wrote: post #195

It is important to note, that in Apple's case the problem is made worse by the fact that on iOS there are no ways to install the app bypassing the appstore. That makes Apple's cooperation with dictators and authocrats so much worse for their users. You know, the people Apple claims to care about and 'protect'.

To be pedantic, Apple does allow Progressive Web Apps which can bypass the App Store. (The Xbox cloud gaming app is a big one that goes down this path) Note that I don’t support at all this decision to cooperate with an autocrat.

>To be pedantic, Apple does allow Progressive Web Apps which can bypass the App Store.

Apple is the company that is actively sabotaging PWAs.

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#307

Post by jsnell »

hnlmorg wrote: post #242
gman83 wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But Google did pull out of China, did that improve the situation in China? Meanwhile Apple makes billions in China and barely anyone says anything. If you're Google you're looking at that like a raw deal.

Google didn't entirely pull out of China, they just terminated their product lines that were unsuccessful in China. I was also just posting a fact that people have made the same calls for China, not my personal opinion about whether we "should" discontinue services with China. On that last point, I'm honestly undecided.

That's just an outright lie. The product they pulled was search. According to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_China it had a 36% search market share.

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#308

Post by simondotau »

fsflover wrote: post #297
simondotau wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't imagine how such an app could be in any way complicated. Why is it not just a website?

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28562772

Thanks. Honestly though I'm surprised, I would have thought blocking specific HTTPS websites wasn't so easy.

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#309

Post by avianlyric »

kwere wrote: post #211
avianlyric wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In their defence (I say this with some trepidation), if they want to see their products in another country, then they need to play by that countries rules. Regardless of how we in the west feel about those rules. If a Chinese company came to the US or EU and ignored US or EU rules and lawful directives from government, we would quite rightly be up in arms about that. With regards to CSAM, I think the same applies. Af…

everybody can use "i was only following orders" as defense in court

Try "I was only following the law". I seriously doubt any court would punish you for sincerely trying to follow the law to the best of your ability.

Russia is a sovereign nation, with the right to rule as they wish. If you're not happy with there way of life, then I would encourage you to contact your democratic representatives and tell them to either apply greater pressure to the Russian government to live up to our ideals, and follow our laws; and if that fails, declare war.

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#310

Post by Arech »

jhgb wrote: post #296
Arech wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My arguing is exactly about that! You can't name something as "elections" when ~~a huge~~ any part of country's people not just don't have a political representative at all, but gets actively counteracted to have such representative.

What is "a huge any part"? Looks like too many determiners to me, so I'm not sure what you're saying there. > don't have a political representative at all That doesn't make a lot of sense, unless you live in a place like Puerto Rico. I'm not sure if Russia has similar places, but I assume it doesn't.

> What is "a huge any part"?

HN doesn't support a strike-through markup. "~~a huge~~" means striked-through font here. I've written it first and then after some thought tried to show that actually the proper word there is "any".

> That doesn't make a lot of sense, unless you live in a place like Puerto Rico. I'm not sure if Russia has similar places, but I assume it doesn't.

You are so much disconnected from what is and how it's happening here...

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