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Bitcoin's growing e-waste problem

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Re: Bitcoin's growing e-waste problem

#61

Post by mcjshciejebcu »

lottin wrote: post #58
mcjshciejebcu wrote: post #35

Whenever I read anything about how resource intensive the bitcoin network is, I wonder how it compares to the total energy and other resource use of traditional finance. Those costs have got to be pretty high for traditional finance, especially considering minting and transportation of physical money and considering the innumerable humans needed to run it. However, I've never seen a serious estimate of those numbers,…

Resource intensity refers to resource use per unit of output [1] not resource use in absolute terms, which is a meaningless statistic. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_intensity

Right, and I haven't seen estimates for the resource intensity of traditional finance. (We do have good estimates of the total volume of traditional finance, so an estimate of the total resource usage of traditional finance would be just as good as resource intensity)

Re: Bitcoin's growing e-waste problem

#62

Post by freeflight »

mcjshciejebcu wrote: post #35

Whenever I read anything about how resource intensive the bitcoin network is, I wonder how it compares to the total energy and other resource use of traditional finance. Those costs have got to be pretty high for traditional finance, especially considering minting and transportation of physical money and considering the innumerable humans needed to run it. However, I've never seen a serious estimate of those numbers,…

These comparisons have been around for a while and they always look really bad for Bitcoin [0], not just in terms of resources but particularly in terms of speed and responsiveness.

[0] https://www.businessinsider.in/cryptocurrency/news/a-single-...

Re: Bitcoin's growing e-waste problem

#63

Post by ARandumGuy »

CubsFan1060 wrote: post #20
bobthechef wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh you mean like those people who fly around in private jets while admonishing people for inter alia flying on commercial airliners too much? (Remember: you're just a peasant. Money elevates you into a new ontic reality where the normal moral principles don't apply.)

That's true. But that's everyone. I've yet to meet a single person who is willing to make the personal sacrifices needed to actually help the world. You get a bunch of normal people (i.e. 'peasants' if you wish) sitting around talking about how to save the environment while eating fruit grown in a faraway land and trucked to them in a refrigerated truck. Everyone wants to say the solution is that other people should…

You're absolutely right. I'll make a big personal sacrifice and close down my oil company. Everyone has to do their part, right?

In seriousness, carbon emissions are overwhelmingly emitted from large corporations and state level actors (like the military). Which isn't to say that people shouldn't do what they can to reduce their own carbon footprint, but the world won't be saved if everyone buys local and starts biking to work.

Re: Bitcoin's growing e-waste problem

#64

Post by 1vuio0pswjnm7 »

whywhywhywhy wrote: post #19

Completely pales next to something as egregious as disposable tech that sells in the millions and only has a lifespan of 2 years tops like AirPods. They will still be washing up on beaches 100 years after every single person involved in their design has passed. Whole electronics industry needs to take this stuff more seriously, we need more replaceable batteries and storage, right to repair on a global level and laws…

Someone points out a legitimate problem with something, and the "response" is to point out a "bigger" problem with something else. Its not a response, its a misdirection. Changing the subject doesnt work.

We have seen this "response" so many times that its laughable. Its like a person who owns large number of shares of Company X and everytime someone brings up the serious problems at Company X she tries to change the subject.

Re: Bitcoin's growing e-waste problem

#65

Post by wlesieutre »

whywhywhywhy wrote: post #19

Completely pales next to something as egregious as disposable tech that sells in the millions and only has a lifespan of 2 years tops like AirPods. They will still be washing up on beaches 100 years after every single person involved in their design has passed. Whole electronics industry needs to take this stuff more seriously, we need more replaceable batteries and storage, right to repair on a global level and laws…

There's a company doing AirPod battery replacements, it's a fair bit cheaper than buying new AirPods

https://www.ifixit.com/News/49433/two-college-roommates-and-...

https://www.thepodswap.com/

Re: Bitcoin's growing e-waste problem

#66

Post by helsinkiandrew »

whywhywhywhy wrote: post #19

Completely pales next to something as egregious as disposable tech that sells in the millions and only has a lifespan of 2 years tops like AirPods. They will still be washing up on beaches 100 years after every single person involved in their design has passed. Whole electronics industry needs to take this stuff more seriously, we need more replaceable batteries and storage, right to repair on a global level and laws…

I've never understood why people complain so much about the environmental impact of AirPods. I mean it would be great if they were rechargeable and recyclable etc - but they weigh 4g - about 1/50 of a pair of headphones.

If the average person uses them for 2 years they'll be a drop in the ocean to the tens or hundreds of kilos of plastic and other objects they don't recycle fully in that time.

Re: Bitcoin's growing e-waste problem

#67

Post by mcjshciejebcu »

krisrm wrote: post #36
mcjshciejebcu wrote: post #35

Whenever I read anything about how resource intensive the bitcoin network is, I wonder how it compares to the total energy and other resource use of traditional finance. Those costs have got to be pretty high for traditional finance, especially considering minting and transportation of physical money and considering the innumerable humans needed to run it. However, I've never seen a serious estimate of those numbers,…

I think it's a somewhat moot comparison, as Bitcoin does just about none of what traditional finance actually does, particularly on the "human" side of things.

Yeah, good point. It's really impossible to disentangle the costs of traditional finance operations analogous to bitcoin from other costs of traditional finance. The comparison would not be perfect, bit I still feel like it would be a useful insight to get a sense of scale.

Re: Bitcoin's growing e-waste problem

#68

Post by CubsFan1060 »

ARandumGuy wrote: post #63
CubsFan1060 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's true. But that's everyone. I've yet to meet a single person who is willing to make the personal sacrifices needed to actually help the world. You get a bunch of normal people (i.e. 'peasants' if you wish) sitting around talking about how to save the environment while eating fruit grown in a faraway land and trucked to them in a refrigerated truck. Everyone wants to say the solution is that other people should…

You're absolutely right. I'll make a big personal sacrifice and close down my oil company. Everyone has to do their part, right? In seriousness, carbon emissions are overwhelmingly emitted from large corporations and state level actors (like the military). Which isn't to say that people shouldn't do what they can to reduce their own carbon footprint, but the world won't be saved if everyone buys local and starts biki…

“I am only one, but I am one. I cannot do everything, but I can do something. And because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do the something that I can do.” ― Edward Everett Hale

Good quote. But, if everyone buys local and starts biking to work, why would the oil companies keep producing as much oil?

Re: Bitcoin's growing e-waste problem

#69

Post by nk1tz »

hypertele-Xii wrote: post #42
whywhywhywhy wrote: post #19

Completely pales next to something as egregious as disposable tech that sells in the millions and only has a lifespan of 2 years tops like AirPods. They will still be washing up on beaches 100 years after every single person involved in their design has passed. Whole electronics industry needs to take this stuff more seriously, we need more replaceable batteries and storage, right to repair on a global level and laws…

As right as you are, that's besides the point. Bitcoin is waste. Pointing at other, more wasteful sources, is besides the point. Abolish both!

The beautiful thing about Bitcoin is that is it a pure, global, free market writ large. There is absolutely nothing you can do to prevent individuals from choosing to participate in it. Therefore the correct retort to someone like you is to tell you to "cry harder".
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