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Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

reuters.com

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Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#261

Post by jgilias »

wwtrv wrote: post #228
r721 wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

NYT and Bloomberg report that threats were real: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28563916

I’m not denying these threats were issued, but actually following them through would be a very irrational thing to do. So it’s probably just a bluff. Of course it doesn’t really matter that much since Google/Apple were going to comply with their requests anyway.

Autocratic leaders can get pretty irrational in their quest of preserving power down to the point of harming what seems to be their interests in major ways.

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#262

Post by jhgb »

Arech wrote: post #254
Dah00n wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, it's all in the eye of the beholder. As someone living in Scandinavia looking at the US that doesn't look like elections much either. Pick your favourite animal: A: Black horse B: Brown horse Z: Pony

No it is not. (if you really "living in Scandinavia") You literally don't understand what are you talking about, which is damn obvious when you comparing Scandinavia or even US to Russia. You basically comparing Tesla car to horse-drawn carriage and draw similarities on a basis that both have 4 wheels and therefore they are both great and safe transportation devices.

I'm not from Scandinavia and the vast majority of US politicians look like interchangeable parts to me as well.

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#263

Post by lupire »

6510 wrote: post #202
fsflover wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The actual problem is not that Apple removed the app. It's that there is no other way to install the app if Apple removes it from their store.

The problem is that everyone is now talking about the app and the prisoner. Good luck putting the genie back in the bottle.

Putin doesn't care what you, a foreigner, talk about. He cares about preserving his dictatorship.

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#264

Post by cageface »

np- wrote: post #248
Andrew_nenakhov wrote: post #195

It is important to note, that in Apple's case the problem is made worse by the fact that on iOS there are no ways to install the app bypassing the appstore. That makes Apple's cooperation with dictators and authocrats so much worse for their users. You know, the people Apple claims to care about and 'protect'.

To be pedantic, Apple does allow Progressive Web Apps which can bypass the App Store. (The Xbox cloud gaming app is a big one that goes down this path) Note that I don’t support at all this decision to cooperate with an autocrat.

To an extent they do but they've refused to implement a lot of important features in iOS safari that are needed for fully capable PWAs.

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#265

Post by Mordisquitos »

avianlyric wrote: post #71
yawaworht1978 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have they ever explained why the csam would be implemented? Apple bends just fine if the government is powerful enough and the marketplace is big enough, see China.

In their defence (I say this with some trepidation), if they want to see their products in another country, then they need to play by that countries rules. Regardless of how we in the west feel about those rules. If a Chinese company came to the US or EU and ignored US or EU rules and lawful directives from government, we would quite rightly be up in arms about that. With regards to CSAM, I think the same applies. Af…

> In their defence (I say this with some trepidation), if they want to see their products in another country, then they need to play by that countries rules.

I understand your trepidation in saying it. That is simply a fact of reality as it stands and how businesses operate under the current incentives, not a value judgement.

However, it makes me think that liberal democracies should play hardball. The USA already has the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act [0] and the UK the Bribery Act 2010 [1], which hold their own businesses and citizens criminally liable for business-related corruption in a foreign country. Also, many countries apply universal jurisdiction for crimes such as child abuse [2].

Maybe liberal democracies should start applying a similar set of rules to businesses who are licenced to operate within their country, forbidding them from performing certain types of tasks (e.g. ideological censorship) for any government.

I am well aware of how incredibly complex a law of this kind would need to be, but let businesses choose – if they want to operate in the EU, USA, UK, etc. then they need to play by the no political repression rules worldwide. Would losing the markets of repressive regimes not be worth it? Well, they're free to move their headquarters to those countries and lose the liberal democratic market.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Corrupt_Practices_Act

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bribery_Act_2010

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_jurisdiction

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#266

Post by latexr »

From Tim Cook’s twitter bio[1]:

> “Life's most persistent and urgent question is, 'What are you doing for others?'” - MLK

Considering this, HKmap.live[2], and Telegram[3], he seems to be mighty confused about who “others” refers to in that quote.

[1]: https://twitter.com/tim_cook

[2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HKmap.live

[3]: https://www.iphoneincanada.ca/news/apple-telegram-belarus/

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#267

Post by dilap »

hypothesis wrote: post #74
avianlyric wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In their defence (I say this with some trepidation), if they want to see their products in another country, then they need to play by that countries rules. Regardless of how we in the west feel about those rules. If a Chinese company came to the US or EU and ignored US or EU rules and lawful directives from government, we would quite rightly be up in arms about that. With regards to CSAM, I think the same applies. Af…

Following laws in countries that one is operating is expected. However, following laws that contradict one’s marketing materials will lead to some understandable questions about those “values”.

I think avianlyric is suggesting Apple didn't have a choice, and that US gov is compelling them to add the CSAM features. Which seems likely to me.

† Really "CSAM", since there's no way to verify nor ensure it's only scanning for CSAM. What they are building is a prohibited content scanner, and what it will scan for is whatever governments would like it to scan for.

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#268

Post by api »

viktorcode wrote: post #85

Reuters doesn't report this, but the government officials threatened the companies (Apple and Google) with jail time for their employees yesterday. After that the companies finally conceded. There's a short video fragment from the meeting of the government officials and the companies representatives. It's worth watching, especially if you come from a democratic nation. Letting your Russian employees be persecuted don…

I don’t know what people expect here. Companies can’t really stand up to governments, especially autocratic ones overseas. Apple’s only option would be to leave Russia completely.

That might be the right thing to do but it’s a tough sell to shareholders.

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#269

Post by ClumsyPilot »

Grustaf wrote: post #194
cheschire wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re not wrong, it could be as simple as that. What’s got some people up in arms isn’t that. The police in America have proven repeatedly that they will ignore individual freedoms to look indiscriminately for people doing bad things. Apple creates a tool that enables pattern matching without consent. But they promise they won’t use it for more than CSAM, and that only they will hold the keys. Okay so imagine that y…

The police will only be involved after their scanner has found 30 matches and Apple’s reviewer has manually concluded that it actually is CSAM, so I don’t see how the police is really relevant? If HOA means home owners association, I don’t see the connection. They can’t influence Apple either.

Its the thin end of the wedge argument, and the fact that your property 'the phone' is spying on you and reporting you to the police.
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