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Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

reuters.com

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Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#121

Post by pndy »

Wolfenstein98k wrote: post #88
viktorcode wrote: post #85

Reuters doesn't report this, but the government officials threatened the companies (Apple and Google) with jail time for their employees yesterday. After that the companies finally conceded. There's a short video fragment from the meeting of the government officials and the companies representatives. It's worth watching, especially if you come from a democratic nation. Letting your Russian employees be persecuted don…

Pull out of the countries then. Participating in dictatorship is barely better than refusing to do so if that dictatorship will falsely imprison your employees.

No company will pull out because there is money in these countries - what happens there in politics, social sphere doesn't actually matter as long their business isn't in any direct danger. And if there's some threat, their "values and moral spine" bends with ease; big corps have tools and means to do damage control if situation requires.

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#122

Post by hnlmorg »

throw_m239339 wrote: post #116
Wolfenstein98k wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pull out of the countries then. Participating in dictatorship is barely better than refusing to do so if that dictatorship will falsely imprison your employees.

> Pull out of the countries then. Then why Apple hasn't pulled out of China? Like 2 decades ago? China was always a brutal dictatorship. Why would they pull out of anything? These company profit from bloody dictatorships, like the rest of the western economy. But somehow when it's about Russia it's a problem? The hypocrisy in the west must stop. The west and it's industry never stood for freedom abroad since it decid…

In fairness, people have been asking Apple and Google (plus many other western businesses) to pull out of China for a long time. The point your making isn't something new nor overlooked.

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#123

Post by modo_mario »

throw_m239339 wrote: post #116
Wolfenstein98k wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pull out of the countries then. Participating in dictatorship is barely better than refusing to do so if that dictatorship will falsely imprison your employees.

> Pull out of the countries then. Then why Apple hasn't pulled out of China? Like 2 decades ago? China was always a brutal dictatorship. Why would they pull out of anything? These company profit from bloody dictatorships, like the rest of the western economy. But somehow when it's about Russia it's a problem? The hypocrisy in the west must stop. The west and it's industry never stood for freedom abroad since it decid…

>The west and it's industry never stood for freedom abroad since it decided that business is more important than democracy in the rest of the world, basically when the west accepted China in the WTO.

I'd say it was long long before that. The US replaced a democratically elected leader with a dictatorship at the behest of a fruit company to give one example and it has had plenty such business influenced examples preceding and following it.

>Tell that to Apple in China

It ain't quite done to separatists but is it surprising? It's ok even when a lot less money is involved and it happens locally.: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28286853

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#124

Post by realusername »

nicce wrote: post #53
vbezhenar wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess because Russian authorities did not make a proper requests for doing so.

It is a totally different thing. App store apps are localized, Youtube is currently global.

Everything is global, I hate that modern tech tries to bring back some kind of "illusion" of borders.

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#125

Post by SergeAx »

amima wrote: post #104
viktorcode wrote: post #85

Reuters doesn't report this, but the government officials threatened the companies (Apple and Google) with jail time for their employees yesterday. After that the companies finally conceded. There's a short video fragment from the meeting of the government officials and the companies representatives. It's worth watching, especially if you come from a democratic nation. Letting your Russian employees be persecuted don…

The real threat came from the fine the government intended to impose on the companies. They threatened to fine not the fixed amount, as they did before, but to calculate it from the turnover values. Which could result in millions of dollars. The Russian government recently fined Booking with almost 18 million USD. For Google and Apple the fine could be even bigger. The threat to employees on the other hand was not re…

They don't need a legal ground to harm any Russian citizen. Last several years political repressions are gaining momentum and there's less and less care about keeping it in a legal field.

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#126

Post by nnnnnande »

throw_m239339 wrote: post #116
Wolfenstein98k wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pull out of the countries then. Participating in dictatorship is barely better than refusing to do so if that dictatorship will falsely imprison your employees.

> Pull out of the countries then. Then why Apple hasn't pulled out of China? Like 2 decades ago? China was always a brutal dictatorship. Why would they pull out of anything? These company profit from bloody dictatorships, like the rest of the western economy. But somehow when it's about Russia it's a problem? The hypocrisy in the west must stop. The west and it's industry never stood for freedom abroad since it decid…

> But Russia is where people here start being outraged?

It's entirely possible that the same people are _also_ outraged by Apple's business in China.

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#127

Post by simonh »

throw_m239339 wrote: post #116
Wolfenstein98k wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pull out of the countries then. Participating in dictatorship is barely better than refusing to do so if that dictatorship will falsely imprison your employees.

> Pull out of the countries then. Then why Apple hasn't pulled out of China? Like 2 decades ago? China was always a brutal dictatorship. Why would they pull out of anything? These company profit from bloody dictatorships, like the rest of the western economy. But somehow when it's about Russia it's a problem? The hypocrisy in the west must stop. The west and it's industry never stood for freedom abroad since it decid…

I posted a sibling comment to your about Russia and the general point. I'll try not to repeat myself but China is very close to my heart as my wife is Chinese and therefore so is half of my family.

My wife's father's family were brutally oppressed by the Communists. To this day he gets upset, and I've seen him burst into tears when talking about what they did to some of his relatives in the 50s and 60s. This is the toughest guy I've ever known.

None of my Chinese relatives, no matter how deeply they oppose the government, thinks Apple should not sell them iPhones because of anything the CCP does. When Apple pulled VPN apps in China they blamed the CCP, not Apple. None of them think refusing to trade with china is in Chinese citizens best interests. This is why I think I can gauge how Russians probably think about this though I have no experience of Russia.

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#128

Post by ethanbond »

martin_a wrote: post #97
Grustaf wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps they don't want people to use their devices for child abuse? Radical idea I know.

Don't stop there! What about terrorists, drug dealers and the organized crime?! We need to stop those, too!

I bet if those crimes were proliferating at the rate that CSAM is, a lot of people would be pursuing more active counter measures

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#129

Post by mensetmanusman »

vbezhenar wrote: post #6
vmception wrote: post #2

Hmm, I fail to see the consequences of the Russian market from Google and Apple's perspective. The Russian market is kind of inconsequential if Google, Apple lost the relationship for noncompliance with the Russian state. You think maybe the US State Department told them to comply? There is probably a lot of user data that Google, Apple get from Russians by having access to that market.

Money is money. There are tens of millions of users there. They don't want to lose a single penny. With adequate profit, capital is very bold. A certain 10 per cent. will ensure its employment anywhere; 20 per cent. certain will produce eagerness; 50 per cent., positive audacity; 100 per cent. will make it ready to trample on all human laws; 300 per cent., and there is not a crime at which it will scruple, nor a risk…

They wouldn’t lose much money, would all these people go to Chinese language phones?

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#130

Post by lovasoa »

mrtksn wrote: post #102
lovasoa wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The regime asked them to, and at that point, they had the choice between siding with the regime, or the people. They chose the regime.

How a company sides with people instead of the regime that governs the country? Describe please.

By not deleting the app.
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