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The new warrant: how US police mine Google for your location and search history

theguardian.com

281–290 of 327 posts

Re: The new warrant: how US police mine Google for your location and search history

#281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Privacy and security regulation, nor antitrust regulation, are viable means to stop tech companies from creating problems. The way to stop them is to regulate online advertising. Tech companies have no other way to make money. Ignoring this is like trying to fight a war without ever trying to interfere with the enemy's supply chains. The constant focus on the majority of web users, i.e., "the average user", is mispla…

When both the government and the advertising companies have an aligned incentive to spy on us all, Why would the government pass either privacy or advertising laws?

That's the problem with democracy at the moment, vested interests have taken control of the forum because (a) they're able to and (b) the majority of citizens are just not interested in or engaged with the issues.

You see this everywhere not only with security etc. but also in many other areas. A classic case is copyright law where a small number of powerful people have hijacked the debate and managed to impement grosely unfair laws in their favor. They're so organized and powerful that they've not only been successful domestically but also internationally with treaties etc. It's almost impossible to break these nexes when the populace at large is so complacent.

In short, our current democratic structures favor the powerful, money-rich and organized at the expense of the disinterested who are disinterested because they're not yet aware of the issues involved and thus don't yet know that they stand to lose or be disadvantaged. There is no effective advocacy system to support them and conterbbalance the push at the early stages of law formation and thus we end up with laws that overcompensate the initial lobby and which are extremely hard to unwind later, especially so when international treaties are involved.

Outside a revolution I cannot see change happening and revolutions are the very last thing we need, they end up disastrously for everyone.

It's all rather depressing really.

Re: The new warrant: how US police mine Google for your location and search history

#282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When both the government and the advertising companies have an aligned incentive to spy on us all, Why would the government pass either privacy or advertising laws?

That's the problem with democracy at the moment, vested interests have taken control of the forum because (a) they're able to and (b) the majority of citizens are just not interested in or engaged with the issues. You see this everywhere not only with security etc. but also in many other areas. A classic case is copyright law where a small number of powerful people have hijacked the debate and managed to impement gro…

> That's the problem with democracy at the moment

I disagree. The problem with (multi-party) based democracy is that it is way more important to be popular with the party seniority, than with the constituents.

If fact, if you want to be a member of a parliament, its essential to first be popular with the party, before you get a shot at being popular with your voters.

Re: The new warrant: how US police mine Google for your location and search history

#283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do I turn off my existence?

Psychedelics?

You just suggested what could be an interesting idea: what if we could give "the google database/engine" the equivalent of a psychedelic? What would that even look like? What could the results be?

Re: The new warrant: how US police mine Google for your location and search history

#284
post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which do you think is more important? Needing to present an alibi in the case of you being wrongly accused? Or needing to conceal your actions in a world where something new has been made illegal?

The former is more important. At least in the U.S., ex post facto laws are unconstitutional, so you don't have to worry about concealing past actions when something new is made illegal.

But ex post facto shifts in what is publicly acceptable are common, opening up possibilities for blackmail or negative life consequences (like being denied jobs, housing, ...).

Re: The new warrant: how US police mine Google for your location and search history

#285

I remember that story about Zachary McCoy. This whole thing continues to get worse quick and will continue to get worse. I know people say we need legislation and regulation on data privacy and tech companies which we do. But before that gets taken seriously (at least in the US) it's going to take something real scandalous done by tech companies and actually affect the common folk where they actually start to care. R…

Privacy and security regulation, nor antitrust regulation, are viable means to stop tech companies from creating problems. The way to stop them is to regulate online advertising. Tech companies have no other way to make money. Ignoring this is like trying to fight a war without ever trying to interfere with the enemy's supply chains. The constant focus on the majority of web users, i.e., "the average user", is mispla…

"Tech companies have no other way to make money"

Microsoft is pretty major, and makes money not from ads

Re: The new warrant: how US police mine Google for your location and search history

#287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the problem with democracy at the moment, vested interests have taken control of the forum because (a) they're able to and (b) the majority of citizens are just not interested in or engaged with the issues. You see this everywhere not only with security etc. but also in many other areas. A classic case is copyright law where a small number of powerful people have hijacked the debate and managed to impement gro…

> That's the problem with democracy at the moment I disagree. The problem with (multi-party) based democracy is that it is way more important to be popular with the party seniority, than with the constituents. If fact, if you want to be a member of a parliament, its essential to first be popular with the party, before you get a shot at being popular with your voters.

Not disagreeing, I should have said 'one of the problems'.

Nevertheless, same goes here, there's insufficient interest from the citizenry to break that nexus too. Breaking party loyalty etc. to obtain a fairer system has been the bane of modern democracy for hundreds of years - back to Hobbes, Locke etc. As I said it's depressing that there's no easy solution.

Edit: Same goes for any lobby who wields effective power over the elected, remember Edmund Burke got the shift from the electors of Bristol when he dared move off their agenda to put broader (national) interest first. Whilst this broader approach seems fairer/better for all it's nevertheless a double-edge sword though, as it allows politicalians an excuse to pursue another agenda - one that may not be in either the electors' or national interest but rather that of a third party or even him or herself. The problem remains, we've no effective way of fixing it/balancing all interests fairly.

Re: The new warrant: how US police mine Google for your location and search history

#288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dunno, I mostly agree with you, but I think lately, at least with my family and friends, the coronavirus political response has made many more people much more skeptical about centralized authority figures. The narrative that is commonly recounted is that it's obvious that the people in authority are either incredibly incompetent or crazily power-hungry, and both are leading many of my family and friends to questio…

I'm just curious: What exactly is seen as being new or remarkable about the failure of some leaders during this pandemic? I share the frustration about these failures, but are your friends/family too young to know about other spectacular failures like Watergate, or Iran-Contra, or the Iraq War, etc? (I could go on) Edit: I just realized my second question is somewhat US-centric so if you aren't from the US then I apo…

Watergate and Iran-Contra are about malicious intent but what I see is a rise of institutional incompetence and ineffectiveness which is rather different.

Consider the mistakes of the WHO. Failure to recommend and even decrying early border closures, failure to declare a pandemic until months after evident global spread, and saying masks positively do not work and then dragging their feet for months on the question.

Contrast that to how the WHO reacted to the first SARS, and we can observe a significant deterioration in competence. I could be mistaken, but it doesn't seem that it's just that we are hearing more about incompetence or have short memories.

I can only speculate on the reasons for this. Political polarization leading to affiliation over competence in hiring decisions, more corruption due to cronyism, diversity over competence in hiring decisions, or overly risk-averse decision making due to fear of social media mobs, are candidate explanations.

Re: The new warrant: how US police mine Google for your location and search history

#289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just wondering what type of thing were you doing that would make you self conscious about your location? Please don't read anything much into this, just interested in what type of things people feel uncomfortable about having recoded. For me the most uncomfortable thing I ever did was itemise how much money I had spent at different outlets. I discovered that I'd spent an incredible amount of money scuba diving over a…

It's more the psychological aspect of knowing that something is always watching and knowing where you are. There's a creepy-feeling mental overhead to it all.

Exactly, remember at school when the teacher stood behind your desk and looked over your shoulder whist you were writing something, doing sums etc. The teacher standing there watching evey move you made was a surefire way of you making a mistake.

Even my partner's cat will stop eating its meal if I stare at it whilst it's eating (yes, it's a bit neurotic). (But unlike Google, Facebook, the Government etc. I'm immediately in trouble for teasing the cat.)

Re: The new warrant: how US police mine Google for your location and search history

#290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Psychedelics?

You just suggested what could be an interesting idea: what if we could give "the google database/engine" the equivalent of a psychedelic? What would that even look like? What could the results be?

telepathic critterdrug?
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