Live data from Hacker News

Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

reuters.com

11–20 of 673 posts

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#11

Hmm, I fail to see the consequences of the Russian market from Google and Apple's perspective. The Russian market is kind of inconsequential if Google, Apple lost the relationship for noncompliance with the Russian state. You think maybe the US State Department told them to comply? There is probably a lot of user data that Google, Apple get from Russians by having access to that market.

Money is money. There are tens of millions of users there. They don't want to lose a single penny. With adequate profit, capital is very bold. A certain 10 per cent. will ensure its employment anywhere; 20 per cent. certain will produce eagerness; 50 per cent., positive audacity; 100 per cent. will make it ready to trample on all human laws; 300 per cent., and there is not a crime at which it will scruple, nor a risk…

[deleted]

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#13
post #8
post #4

Apple’s acquiescence to the Russian government’s demand to remove this app was predicted when it first came to light. Exactly at the same time as Apple was assuring world+dog that it would never acquiesce to governmental pressure to extend and expand the scope of its CSAM scanning tool on user’s devices.

You are comparing ”apples” to oranges. App store apps are built by third parties whereas CSAM is Apple’s own code and design on OS level, applying on global level. App store apps have been under removal threat in every country for many years if they can be considered as illegal.

Apple has to comply with local laws, regardless of who authored the code.

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#14
post #8
post #4

Apple’s acquiescence to the Russian government’s demand to remove this app was predicted when it first came to light. Exactly at the same time as Apple was assuring world+dog that it would never acquiesce to governmental pressure to extend and expand the scope of its CSAM scanning tool on user’s devices.

You are comparing ”apples” to oranges. App store apps are built by third parties whereas CSAM is Apple’s own code and design on OS level, applying on global level. App store apps have been under removal threat in every country for many years if they can be considered as illegal.

The CSAM databases are not Apple's own either.

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#15
post #4

Apple’s acquiescence to the Russian government’s demand to remove this app was predicted when it first came to light. Exactly at the same time as Apple was assuring world+dog that it would never acquiesce to governmental pressure to extend and expand the scope of its CSAM scanning tool on user’s devices.

#freeAppStores for everybody!

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#16

Some of my friends from ex-USSR countries (not Russia) are telling me it's available there on Google Play.

The vast majority of electoral votes is going to be cast in Russia either way.

I mean the app isn't removed, maybe just hidden from search for Russian users.

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#17

Previously, Google usually ignored such requests, but seems to have finally gave in. If they are willing to remove the app, what's next, disclosing personal information to help the regime with repressions, preventing access from Russia to other Google resources, removing YouTube videos? The "we comply with local laws" clause effectively puts citizens of opperssive regime at a disadvantage. It's not like I had an impr…

Google obeys Russian laws. Of course they'll disclose any information they have given proper police request. They did that many times in the past. With Russia and with other countries. Do you expect Google to go partisan war against Russian government?

Why didn't they remove Navalny's videos from YouTube then?

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#18
There's no way Apple or any company to act as an extralegal entity in another country. Every time something like that comes up, I'm baffled by the expectation that an American company will impose the American values or American laws in another country.

Back in the day when the internet felt like international thing not bound by any local laws, that was possible to some degrees but legislators caught up with it.

It is obvious that you don't sell your crypto finance stuff to Americans, you don't make anti-Putin stuff for Russians, you don't give Saudis encrypted messaging, you don't give Turks gambling apps, you don't sell Nazi stuff to Germans etc. on the internet, unless you are ready to face repercussions. They can try to find a legal angle if they believe there is one and that it will benefit them more than harm them but often there isn't one because gambling is illegal in Turkey, SEC has strict securities regulations in the USA, Putin has an absolute power in Russia and Saudis simply don't allow it.

There is no way Apple or Google or any company facing the repercussions of not complying to the laws of Russia, therefore they will remove from the Russian AppStore whatever they are told to remove.

Allowing alternative AppStores also wouldn't solve it but only delegate it to the people who run those alternative AppStores. Technological solutions to political problems work up until the politicians catch up. The more effective the technological solution the faster they catch up and take care of it.

StarLink for example, a swarm of satellites that can technically provide unrestricted internet to anyone on the planet, will obey the local laws depending on where the user is connecting from.

I know the technologist don't like it but there's no way around it. If you are in Russia, you are in Russia. Get rid of Putin, form a functioning democracy if you like to live in western-like country. No company is not going to provide you with the environment that people in the west built through struggles for generations.

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#19

Previously, Google usually ignored such requests, but seems to have finally gave in. If they are willing to remove the app, what's next, disclosing personal information to help the regime with repressions, preventing access from Russia to other Google resources, removing YouTube videos? The "we comply with local laws" clause effectively puts citizens of opperssive regime at a disadvantage. It's not like I had an impr…

Google had also went back on their word on halting to provide information to the HK/Chinese government after the national security law has been enacted.

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#20
post #8
post #4

Apple’s acquiescence to the Russian government’s demand to remove this app was predicted when it first came to light. Exactly at the same time as Apple was assuring world+dog that it would never acquiesce to governmental pressure to extend and expand the scope of its CSAM scanning tool on user’s devices.

You are comparing ”apples” to oranges. App store apps are built by third parties whereas CSAM is Apple’s own code and design on OS level, applying on global level. App store apps have been under removal threat in every country for many years if they can be considered as illegal.

So, same for Apple then, which would be under a threat from a government if they do not submit to whatever CSAM requirements, regardless of “pinky swear” promises?
Post reply on HN