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Windows 11: Just say no

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Re: Windows 11: Just say no

#391

Post by tablespoon »

jpe90 wrote: post #379
tablespoon wrote: post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> * Windows 10 fixed it Windows 10 is biggest garbage fire POS Windows version yet, because of their new update model. For the last several months , I've been unable to install the mandatory (for non-enterprise users) feature update patches. They fail to install with a cryptic error code and get rolled back. If I don't get this figured out soon, I'm not going to be able to get security patches anymore. I should be ab…

Is a fresh install not an option for the system you're describing? I'm not suggesting that it's a sane thing to have to do, but after a couple of hours of resesrching the problem with no leads it seems like the best choice.

> Is a fresh install not an option for the system you're describing? I'm not suggesting that it's a sane thing to have to do, but after a couple of hours of resesrching the problem with no leads it seems like the best choice.

A fresh install with my original media failed in the same way during updates.

A fresh install (on a spare HD) with the media creation tool worked once, but crashed and burned after the first time I ran Windows update. I might try again, but I'm a little worn out.

I actually wasted hours with MS chat support, but they offered no insight except running me through a fresh install script. Once I hit the end they started talking about BIOS updates. However that's an entirely different wall, because apparently my MB shipped with an update that's not recommended for my CPU, but I cannot downgrade. I'm now debating whether to shell out $$$ for CPU upgrade (not even to current gen), but the ones I want are out of stock and only being sold by iffy sellers.

Re: Windows 11: Just say no

#392

Post by Arainach »

abandonliberty wrote: post #375
tablespoon wrote: post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> * Windows 10 fixed it Windows 10 is biggest garbage fire POS Windows version yet, because of their new update model. For the last several months , I've been unable to install the mandatory (for non-enterprise users) feature update patches. They fail to install with a cryptic error code and get rolled back. If I don't get this figured out soon, I'm not going to be able to get security patches anymore. I should be ab…

Meanwhile, updates work for me but don't ask for user consent after downloading them. I just come back to find my PC randomly rebooted overnight.

Better that than the Internet being attacked by botnets full of machines that users never patch because they're constantly "doing important things overnight".

Re: Windows 11: Just say no

#393

Post by tablespoon »

Arainach wrote: post #392
abandonliberty wrote: post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meanwhile, updates work for me but don't ask for user consent after downloading them. I just come back to find my PC randomly rebooted overnight.

Better that than the Internet being attacked by botnets full of machines that users never patch because they're constantly "doing important things overnight".

> Better that than the Internet being attacked by botnets full of machines that users never patch because they're constantly "doing important things overnight".

Force updates are debatable for security patches, but they're entirely unacceptable for new features.

Re: Windows 11: Just say no

#394

Post by TomDavey »

II2II wrote: post #157
mypalmike wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dream job: full time engineer on Windows Calculator team.

Developing a calculator that one could be proud of would be a pretty sweet job. By that I mean producing a product that consistently produced correct results, offered useful features, and had a user interface that is more pleasant to use than a four function calculator.

Emacs Calc. Mind blowing in features and power. As for the UI . . . well, it's Emacs.

Re: Windows 11: Just say no

#395

Post by Arainach »

seph-reed wrote: post #117
Someone1234 wrote: post #21

Windows 11 is half-baked. But it isn't just half-baked because it was rushed out while ignoring all the feedback (although it absolutely was). It is also half-baked because Microsoft's management has no particular strategy or plan for what they want Windows to be. So Windows 11 just feels like an "and kitchen sink" where someone picked up an iPad, noted down a bunch of random features without rhyme or reason and then…

> Microsoft needs someone with a vision for Windows at the helm, Is it possible for a project to be abused for long enough that it becomes irrecoverable from any financially sensible perspective? I mean this seriously: I've heard the codebase for Windows is really, really ancient and making updates is a nightmare. It's almost like trying to revive a lost language. What if Windows has passed the threshold where the co…

Whoever you heard that from is wrong. The codebase has evolved over time and has been actively maintained and refactored. Making updates is not a "nightmare".

Re: Windows 11: Just say no

#396

Post by a-dub »

Someone1234 wrote: post #21

Windows 11 is half-baked. But it isn't just half-baked because it was rushed out while ignoring all the feedback (although it absolutely was). It is also half-baked because Microsoft's management has no particular strategy or plan for what they want Windows to be. So Windows 11 just feels like an "and kitchen sink" where someone picked up an iPad, noted down a bunch of random features without rhyme or reason and then…

> Regardless of what that vision is, at least then Windows would be a something, rather than a whole host of competing ideas and contradictions i.e. a mess.

the big problem is, and this is primarily why i dislike everything windows, is that humans are mimicry machines. if you give them tooling that's an inconsistent mess, it's going to normalize the idea of inconsistent messes, and then they will create inconsistent messes.

windows ultimately normalizes inconsistency and mediocrity- as such, it encourages these habits of mind in those who are forced to use it. if those who are forced to use it are in any sort of creative positions, they ultimately create and propagate chaos that matches the cage which they are forced to reside within.

Re: Windows 11: Just say no

#397

Post by pjmlp »

n8cpdx wrote: post #302
pjmlp wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

WinRT looked great, finally .NET being like Delphi and a C++ stack that looked like C++ Builder, for those moments that .NET alone won't do it. On one side .NET Native is left to stagnate in C# 7, and C++/CX got replaced with C++/WinRT, which to this day (4 years later) still doesn't offer any kind of IDL tooling on VS (lets forget for a second that IDL exists since OLE 1.0), and requires manually merging generated f…

I think there's a degree of denial. I remember walking up to an engineer on the WinUI team at Build (can't remember if 2018 or 2019) and they were _shocked_ that I had complaints about UWP. They seemed to think it was a revelation. It was honestly offensive how out of touch she was. I think at least the PMs on that team do not understand the human suffering they cause by releasing such a bad product. Anyway, after a…

I guess you have put it quite well.

Re: Windows 11: Just say no

#398

Post by stjohnswarts »

porknubbins wrote: post #215
cogman10 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is what drives me nuts. Why do they keep messing with the UI? Nobody wants that! Even Apple and Google have both figured out that screwing around with UX every release is a recipe for making your customers HATE you. What I, and probably non-power users want out of windows is for it to be faster and use less power. I'd honestly be happy to go back to a Win95 interface with the latest kernel. Microsoft needs to fi…

The weird thing is they don’t redesign the old UI as much as put new “simpler” UI over it with the option to use either. I’m pretty sure there are like 3 levels of UI between Windows 10 and the classic Device Manager.

yeah, most things though, if you know the name you can just hit the windows key and type the name and skip all the crap in between

Re: Windows 11: Just say no

#399

Post by pjmlp »

int_19h wrote: post #280
thrower123 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Winforms will never die. If I was looking to make an investment into a skillset that will still be really useful in thirty years, I would go deep on WinForms.

At this point, WPF won't die, either.

And has lots of features that WinUI or UWP will never get.

Doing a 3D visualization for a LOB application? WPF can handle it.

Doing the same in UWP/WinUI? Ah the pour soul needs to go learn C++, C++/WinRT and DirectX then make use of SwapChainPanel, or trying to fit a third party .NET game engine into the application.

Then the team acts surprised that WPF has 3D capabilities when asked about this.

Apparently doing requirement analysis for what a replacement framework should cover wasn't part of the deal.

Re: Windows 11: Just say no

#400

Post by dartharva »

abledon wrote: post #255
GiorgioG wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why do they keep messing with the UI? UX folks don't get paid to leave things alone.

Cough spotify

I largely believe the Spotify folks keep making changes in their apps solely to break the experiences of those who're running cracked (ad-blocked) builds.
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