Earlier quoted context omitted.
I 100% agree that we should have done and should still do more to prepare for this and future pandemics. But I still wonder how you're not getting this. The vaccine greatly reduces your chances of getting sick, and getting stuck in a hospital, but it doesn't completely eliminate it. If everyone between 18-50 refused to get vaccinated, we would still see a surge in hospitalizations. Do you not understand the word "pro…
Where I live we have more cases today (twice more) with 82% of people double-vaccinated then we did last year with 0% vaccinated.
Deaths involving Covid-19 by vaccination status, England
131–140 of 171 posts
Re: Deaths involving Covid-19 by vaccination status, England
#132Earlier quoted context omitted.
> AND IF EVERYONE HAD JUST GOTTEN VACCINATED NONE OF THIS WOULD BE HAPPENING AND WE WOULD BE BACK TO NORMAL. We can't know that. You are assuming. For all we know, if everyone got vaccinated the virus could have mutated around it faster, leaving us at square one.
The vaccines are something around 98% effective against severe disease. If people were vaccinated they'd stay out of the hospitals. The hospitals are the problem. I feel like I'm explaining arithmetic to an idiot. And if you vaccinate everyone there will be less infections overall. For all of the worst-casing about VE and waning against infection it still isn't 0% VE. And breakthrough infections have less culturable…
Perhaps, but you also don't get what I am saying. If we vaccinated everyone, the virus wouldn't be eradicated because animals can be hosts. Because of that, the evolutionary pressure put on the virus by everyone being vaccinated could result in the virus mutating enough to evade immunity. The same thing happens with flu every year.
Re: Deaths involving Covid-19 by vaccination status, England
#133Earlier quoted context omitted.
You're right. There is more nuance. For instance, many of the concerns about "long COVID" are legitimate. But even within the nuance the statistics are being used to support narratives that aren't always honest. Just look at the news that apparently 40-45% of COVID hospitalizations are actually people who were admitted for another reason and just so happened to test positive upon admission. https://www.theatlantic.co…
Perhaps, but FYI the article and its source are talking about pediatric hospitalizations in particular.
> The authors of the paper out this week took a different tack to answer a similar question, this time for adults. Instead of meticulously looking at why a few hundred patients were admitted to a pair of hospitals, they analyzed the electronic records for nearly 50,000 COVID hospital admissions at the more than 100 VA hospitals across the country. Then they checked to see whether each patient required supplemental oxygen or had a blood oxygen level below 94 percent. (The latter criterion is based on the National Institutes of Health definition of “severe COVID.”) If either of these conditions was met, the authors classified that patient as having moderate to severe disease; otherwise, the case was considered mild or asymptomatic.
> The study found that from March 2020 through early January 2021—before vaccination was widespread, and before the Delta variant had arrived—the proportion of patients with mild or asymptomatic disease was 36 percent. From mid-January through the end of June 2021, however, that number rose to 48 percent. In other words, the study suggests that roughly half of all the hospitalized patients showing up on COVID-data dashboards in 2021 may have been admitted for another reason entirely, or had only a mild presentation of disease.
> This increase was even bigger for vaccinated hospital patients, of whom 57 percent had mild or asymptomatic disease. But unvaccinated patients have also been showing up with less severe symptoms, on average, than earlier in the pandemic: The study found that 45 percent of their cases were mild or asymptomatic since January 21. According to Shira Doron, an infectious-disease physician and hospital epidemiologist at Tufts Medical Center, in Boston, and one of the study’s co-authors, the latter finding may be explained by the fact that unvaccinated patients in the vaccine era tend to be a younger cohort who are less vulnerable to COVID and may be more likely to have been infected in the past.
Knowing that almost 50% of the hospitalizations in both children and adults that are classified as COVID hospitalizations aren't really for COVID totally obliterates the narrative in the media about how (mostly unvaccinated) COVID patients are overwhelming the hospitals.
Re: Deaths involving Covid-19 by vaccination status, England
#134So if someone gets the vaccine and dies before the next shot, they are considered an unvaccinated death.
There are no opinions presented here, only facts. How you view these is up to you.
Re: Deaths involving Covid-19 by vaccination status, England
#135Regardless of opinions on the topic. We (the UK public) have practically reached the 90% vaccination status.
Can we all just get back to life now. There's nothing else to do other than making this flu shot available to those at risk who want it.
Life is ultimately fatal. It's not about the destination it's the journey that matters.
Re: Deaths involving Covid-19 by vaccination status, England
#136Earlier quoted context omitted.
The vaccines are something around 98% effective against severe disease. If people were vaccinated they'd stay out of the hospitals. The hospitals are the problem. I feel like I'm explaining arithmetic to an idiot. And if you vaccinate everyone there will be less infections overall. For all of the worst-casing about VE and waning against infection it still isn't 0% VE. And breakthrough infections have less culturable…
> They reduce the chances of mutation. Perhaps, but you also don't get what I am saying. If we vaccinated everyone, the virus wouldn't be eradicated because animals can be hosts. Because of that, the evolutionary pressure put on the virus by everyone being vaccinated could result in the virus mutating enough to evade immunity. The same thing happens with flu every year.
You're having an argument with someone who isn't me.
If you vaccinate everyone then the near perfect VE against severe disease and hospitalization keeps people out of the hospitals and keeps them from falling over. And that is sufficient.
I never said anything about eradicating the virus or eliminating all infection and transmission. But at that point THEN you have hit the point where "its just a flu" arguments can kick in and the virus can do whatever the hell it wants to and the hospital system won't fall over.
And due to T-cells and cross-reactive T-cells (and the persistence and lack of waning of T-cells as shown by the SARS-CoV-1 17+ year T-cell persistence) then any future mutation which achieves immune escape from Nabs should still just be "flu" rather than "COVID-22" or whatever.
Get everyone vaccinated first, then we're basically done with it as a pandemic. Then you get what you want, which is living with an endemic virus, but one which will have much less disease burden than it currently has in the unvaccinated population.
Or put simply, to stop the waves of nearly 100% unvaccinated people dying in hospitals, just vaccinate everyone. No unvaccinated people, no hospitals falling over.
Re: Deaths involving Covid-19 by vaccination status, England
#137This data is out of date. The cut off is July 2nd, it doesn't take into account delta, or the fact not a high amount of people were vaccinated at that point. The most up to date data comes from Public Health England. Public Health England published a report last week which gave us this data for the period of August 9th to September 5th. It shows that of 2,381 deaths in this period, 1,659 or 69.7%, more than two third…
68.1% efficacy against death is huge, and for that period is likely to be mostly delta variant, we can't just forget about Alpha variant which vaccine does amazing with, which the previous data shows.. not sure how this points to them being "government propaganda" campaign. Although I agree it's a bit disappointing they are not painting the full picture.
But people reading that "73% of new deaths were unvaccinated" would cause panic among people that don't understand you need to take into account ~90% of population aged >60 have been double vaccinated for a while now .
Re: Deaths involving Covid-19 by vaccination status, England
#138Re: Deaths involving Covid-19 by vaccination status, England
#139Earlier quoted context omitted.
Facts like these don't matter to the COVID-obsessed. Turns out that screaming 24/7 for 18 months at people they're going to die messes with their cognitive abilities. Go figure! And here I thought doing this would keep us calm and rational. We basically have a best-case scenario today and an awful lot of people don't care and still think it's doomsday. Vaccines are fantastic at reducing COVID to a cold, kids are at n…
Linked is a fascinating dataset showing exactly what you are talking about. The average american thinks if they get covid, their odds of dying from it around 10%. In younger age brackets this is almost 1000x wrong. People are very, very badly misinformed about their risks for covid. This makes it almost impossible to have rational, grounded discussion of public policy. If everybody is walking around thinking covid is…
The fear is way, way worse than the virus.
Re: Deaths involving Covid-19 by vaccination status, England
#140Many places allegedly don't count it as vaccinated unless they have had both shots and a certain amount of time has passed. So if someone gets the vaccine and dies before the next shot, they are considered an unvaccinated death. There are no opinions presented here, only facts. How you view these is up to you.
These may be facts, but are they actually useful?