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Michelin's airless tires are scheduled for market launch in 2024

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Re: Michelin's airless tires are scheduled for market launch in 2024

#141

Post by jrgaston »

wing-_-nuts wrote: post #124

I wonder about ride quality. My car had runflats when I bought it, when it was time for new tires, I went with some high quality all seasons. My ride quality improved, my gas mileage went up and they brake / corner better. The risk of an unplugable flat is a small price to pay for that.

Run flat tires are expensive, heavy, and hard riding. On the other hand, they don't go flat. I recently had a flat in my VW and I missed having my old Mini's run flats. Sometimes you just aren't in a place where you want to change a tire.

Re: Michelin's airless tires are scheduled for market launch in 2024

#142

Post by adrianmonk »

jaclaz wrote: post #45

>Through its Vision Concept, the company wants to make tires that are airless, rechargeable, connected, and sustainable. 1) airless, check. 2) rechargeable ?? 3) connected ?? 4) sustainable ??

Official info on those 4 points:

https://www.michelin.com/en/innovation/vision-concept/

It is a company vision, not a product announcement, so as expected much of it is fuzzy and hypothetical, and it may or may not apply to this particular product.

But this part offers a clearer idea of what rechargeable means:

> The tread can be “recharged” using a 3D printer, which means that VISION can be adapted to motorists’ changing needs, for maximum comfort, safety and sustainability.

They also have an official page for this actual product line, which is called Uptis (Unique Puncture-Proof Tire System):

https://michelinmedia.com/michelin-uptis/

The FAQ on this latter page says stuff relevant to sustainability:

> Today’s level of rolling resistance is about the same as a zero-pressure (“run flat”) tire

...

> Uptis will have the same mileage of a standard tire.

I believe this is an important part of sustainability because if mileage were worse, you'd gain in one area (reduced waste) and lose in another (increased energy usage). So if mileage really is the same, that's a good thing.

Re: Michelin's airless tires are scheduled for market launch in 2024

#143

Post by mikestew »

jagger27 wrote: post #132
throwaway0a5e wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>rechargeable >sustainable "retreadable" but the marketing department didn't think that had sufficient appeal for the demographics the press release was targeted it.

It's common for aircraft and other heavy duty equipment's tires to be retreaded. Seems like a reasonable thing to do on passenger vehicles if it can be scaled.

It used to be done for passenger car tires. A quick search says one can still find recapped tires if determined. But why isn't it more common, when it was common about 40-50 years ago? Well, that time began to approach the time I spent as a mechanic, and the reason was cheap, imported tires that were starting to come out of Asian factories. I can sell you a retread, or you can have a brand new tire from some off-brand for about the same money, and guess which was chosen more often?

This link seems to line up with what I remember from 40 years ago:

https://www.treadwright.com/blogs/treadwright-blog/are-retre...

If the Michelin's are built with retreading in mind, should work fine. After all, it always did before. :-)

Re: Michelin's airless tires are scheduled for market launch in 2024

#144

Post by adrianmonk »

bufferoverflow wrote: post #3

How do they deal with rocks/mud/dirt/sand getting inside?

Their FAQ (downloadable from https://michelinmedia.com/michelin-uptis/) does address this:

> 21. What will happen if some small stones or mud or snow get in between the structure of Uptis?

> The objective during the development of the commercial product is to test Uptis in all of these situations. Some preliminary tests show that stones, mud or ice/snow will not stay inside the Uptis structure.

Obviously preliminary tests aren't anywhere near enough to prove it's a nonissue, though.

Re: Michelin's airless tires are scheduled for market launch in 2024

#145

Post by adrianmonk »

dhd415 wrote: post #21
bufferoverflow wrote: post #3

How do they deal with rocks/mud/dirt/sand getting inside?

Alloy wheels have had open designs for decades and that hasn't been a problem for them.

Alloy wheels don't need to flex, though. If a rock wedges into nooks and crannies of this, perhaps it could mess up the performance. And perhaps it could cause damage since you'd have a harder material (rock) rubbing against a softer one (rubbery airless tire stuff).

Re: Michelin's airless tires are scheduled for market launch in 2024

#146

Post by robocat »

dntrkv wrote: post #89
OneEyedRobot wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

5) diverse ...and then you've got something. I'm actually surprised that I've never seen a tire with some kind of closed-cell super lightweight foam, some kind of aerogel maybe. I suppose the problem in that case is that you can't spread heat throughout the whole interior. Which makes me wonder, how do they radiate heat on this Michelin? Does it stick around the outer surface and that's it? Do the 'spokes' bear it aw…

In the off-road motorcycle industry there are these tubes called mousse bibs. I run them on all my bikes. They do replace the inner tubes, not the tires themselves. But they work great and are the best anti-flat solution out there. They sound similar to what you’re talking about. Michelin makes them too. https://www.revzilla.com/motorcycle/michelin-bib-mousse-tire...

The name “Bib mousse” was created by Michelin - Bib is short for Bibendum, which is the name of the Michelin man, and mousse is French for foam.

Re: Michelin's airless tires are scheduled for market launch in 2024

#147

Post by mikepurvis »

wcarron wrote: post #116
mikepurvis wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surely it saves a lot of rubber waste too? Like 90%+ of the rubber mass of a typical tire must be in the parts that never contact the road and therefore should be good forever?

Unfortunately not the case. Tires go through lots of heat and stress cycles. I think most of the heat a tire generates isn't from friction with the road, even. It's internal friction within the tire itself. The carcasses are made of wires/meshes/layers of aramids/steel/aluminum and aren't indestructible, even if durable. And the rubber on the sidewalls gets degraded by sun/dirt/sand/etc, too.

True, true. But from the picture in the article, it sure looks like there's a heck of a lot less rubber overall in this tire— so regardless of what it's been historically, this is a step toward a tire that "consumes" way, way less rubber per X distance of driving, whether due to less rubber being in it overall, or it being able to be recharged with additional tread before being disposed of.

Re: Michelin's airless tires are scheduled for market launch in 2024

#148

Post by robocat »

ashtonkem wrote: post #98
throwaway0a5e wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any noise a normal-ish passenger car is of no consequence compared to the noise of heavy trucks and motorcycles. You don't even notice it. It's only "blighted" because the people who self select to live beside a highway tend not to be the ones who care a ton about making their residence look nice from the street (manicured lawn, nice siding, sealed driveway, etc, etc) so the prices stay cheap, the rents stay low and…

“Houses nearby highways are low value because the owners are too lazy to manicure their lawns” is an explanation I don’t buy one bit. It’s too “just so” for my tastes, and it also contradicts my own personal experience of having my house value go up despite us purposefully killing the yard. Home values change for a lot of reasons outside the owners control; blaming it on the owners for not caring sufficiently about c…

I suspect a significant causation could be that living near a highway is low status, and having a beautifully manicured lawn is often about trying to signal high status. Why bother with a high status lawn on a low status property?

Re: Michelin's airless tires are scheduled for market launch in 2024

#149

Post by exhilaration »

jrgaston wrote: post #141
wing-_-nuts wrote: post #124

I wonder about ride quality. My car had runflats when I bought it, when it was time for new tires, I went with some high quality all seasons. My ride quality improved, my gas mileage went up and they brake / corner better. The risk of an unplugable flat is a small price to pay for that.

Run flat tires are expensive, heavy, and hard riding. On the other hand, they don't go flat. I recently had a flat in my VW and I missed having my old Mini's run flats. Sometimes you just aren't in a place where you want to change a tire.

My Toyota Sienna AWD (with run flats) doesn't have a spare tire, so sometimes you CAN'T even change a tire!

Re: Michelin's airless tires are scheduled for market launch in 2024

#150

Post by godelski »

throwawaytire01 wrote: post #99
gbil wrote: post #30

That "Hit the Streets" is an exaggeration, the actual quote from the article on timeline: -- the company said they were on track for tires to reach the market by 2024. --

I am an engineer working in the tire industry (throwaway is needed here). The Michelin "Tweel" IP was actually acquired when Michelin bought BF Goodrich 31 years ago. Goodrich developed the concept as a replacement for compact spare tires, doing the initial R&D in the 1980s. Every 3--5 years Michelin has a press release like this, and the technology is always 3--5 years away from release. Currently the US DOT and it'…

What are the reasons for it constantly being 3-5 years away? Technology? Regulations? Both? Manufacturers not thinking the public will understand tradeoffs and unwilling to take the risk and explain this to them? Can it at least work as a spare tire?
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