Apple blocked the FlickType Watch keyboard then announced a clone of it • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple blocked the FlickType Watch keyboard then announced a clone of it

#211

Post by mabbo » Wed, Sep 15, 2021, 2:25 PM UTC

This is the key problem when a market-maker is also a market participant. When the same entity setting the market rules, deciding who is violating them, and collecting the market data is also an active competitor against everyone else in that market.

It's not a fair playing field. Apple knows that, but pretends that it is.

I say it's a problem, but I don't have a solution. It's hard to say "Apple can't make apps for the iPhone". Or "Amazon can't sell stuff on Amazon". Or "Google can't by ad space on Google Ads".

There clearly needs to be some sort of laws to restrict these kinds of behaviours, to encourage a diverse and open economy rather than rigged games.

Re: Apple blocked the FlickType Watch keyboard then announced a clone of it

#212

Post by ttty2 » Wed, Sep 15, 2021, 2:25 PM UTC

scns wrote: post #130

sofixa wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I am against regulations but I still find these practices anticompetitive I really don't know how anyone can see this sort of crap and say they're against regulations. The market obviously isn't fixing itself, do you have any other solution?

For me "The market will fix itself" is just a neoliberal lie, no amount of repeating it will make it true. Sadly many people believe people who speak with conviction. A family member shared similar crap (oh noes, i will have to pay more for gas) in a private group History has shown over and over that left to their own devices people will act in their own self interest. And from a biological point of view it would eve…

It will fix when nobody will make apps for apple...

Re: Apple blocked the FlickType Watch keyboard then announced a clone of it

#213

Post by IncRnd » Wed, Sep 15, 2021, 2:26 PM UTC

judge2020 wrote: post #160

Watch keyboard? How does that work? Did it use the iPhone as a proxy to swipe on the watch (since there are obviously no APIs to custom keyboards on the watch).

Your very comment makes it seem as if there was innovation with the keyboard that Apple took.

Re: Apple blocked the FlickType Watch keyboard then announced a clone of it

#214

Post by rebuilder » Wed, Sep 15, 2021, 2:27 PM UTC

mabbo wrote: post #211

This is the key problem when a market-maker is also a market participant. When the same entity setting the market rules, deciding who is violating them, and collecting the market data is also an active competitor against everyone else in that market. It's not a fair playing field. Apple knows that, but pretends that it is. I say it's a problem, but I don't have a solution. It's hard to say "Apple can't make apps for…

I guess that leaves “Apple can’t dictate what programs can be run on iPhones”

Re: Apple blocked the FlickType Watch keyboard then announced a clone of it

#215

Post by IncRnd » Wed, Sep 15, 2021, 2:30 PM UTC

aixi wrote: post #25

I don't think this is a very popular take, but swipe keyboards are extremely common right now; I don't believe Apple had an ulterior motive here.

It's not a popular take, because you are ignoring the history of the situation that has been mentioned a large number of times on this page and in the article.

Re: Apple blocked the FlickType Watch keyboard then announced a clone of it

#216

Post by Terretta » Wed, Sep 15, 2021, 2:33 PM UTC

jacquesm wrote: post #195

windexh8er wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a good point, but consoles were single purpose computers. They exist to play games. Now, I'll agree that the line is blurred these days, but they're still generally gaming machines. Nobody is buying an XBox to stream Netflix solely. I think the difference is that Apple wants people to buy these devices as your primary computing device. Are you OK when Apple locks down the Mac line? What if you couldn't use Brew…

It's not so much about copycat games per-se but about the ability to run whatever software you want on a device that you own, and in that respect those games consoles are quite good representations of the walled garden concept. In fact, the 'general purpose computer' will historically be seen as some kind of very stupid aberration, who ever thought that giving end users that kind of power was a good idea? /s

Software is not different from hardware. Digital parts aren't magic, bring no magic rights, it's still just boring old parts someone invested in engineering into a product.

Even in digital, beige box server, IaaS, PaaS, SaaS, FaaS, applications, devices, apps, screens... different waterlines, none of them magic. Which waterline do you have the right to "run whatever you want"? Which waterline is a business ok to say, from here down, it's my product?

Anti-circumvention laws saying DRM means hands off altogether are different from saying a maker must take extra steps to make it easier for you to mod the device they invested R&D in, must allow your mod at potential harm to other mods on the device, or a maker must change their business model to facilitate malware and benevolent app devs alike.

There's a market segment for beige boxes and Raspberry PIs. Not every device with digital parts supporting digital mods, plug-ins, add-ons, cartridges, apps, whatever you call them, has to be forced to be a Raspberry Pi.

You have a right to remove the warning label from your mattress, or root your phone, but Sealy doesn't have to perforate the tag and Samsung doesn't have to give you a toggle.

Re: Apple blocked the FlickType Watch keyboard then announced a clone of it

#217

Post by lovemenot » Wed, Sep 15, 2021, 2:34 PM UTC

It seems there might have been a personal problem between a founder and an ex-founder - now Exec. They're from a different generation but the same domain.

We don't know why Apple's offer was rejected. But in a case like this, it is conceivable that it was felt the Swype founder had demeaned his successor's achievements.

That this exec alone was singled out by name suggests that the negotiation's breakdown might have been triggered by a clash of personalities.

If so - despite having already delivered their fait accompli - in the interest of fairness Apple should remake its previous offer. This time with heightened sensitivity to the pair of egos.

Re: Apple blocked the FlickType Watch keyboard then announced a clone of it

#218

Post by Terretta » Wed, Sep 15, 2021, 2:34 PM UTC

jacquesm wrote: post #189

Terretta wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. Half Life was not a walled garden before opening up to modders, and was not a walled garden after. It was just a game opened to modders. If we get over ourselves, and allow that there's new category of thing, devices made of mechanical and digital parts both, that the maker may or may not selectively open for mods as a legitimate part of their business model they're within their rights to choose, then we'd be les…

Half Life is not a device, modders are not application programmers targeting that device.

> [Software] is not a device.

Then what are you engineering?

---

Edit to elaborate:

I'm convinced this is the essence of the debate that has intensified as parts that move at the speed of light are devouring physical parts.

Switch, transistor, if statement -- a maker should be able to convert one type of part to another type of part without losing their rights, or accidentally triggering a "oh, look, general computing, therefore it's no longer up to you to decide!" flag of some sort.

Ease of reconfiguring electrons shouldn't change right to design and distribute a product with whatever blend of physical and digital one wants, facilitating whatever purpose one wants, and not being forced to facilitate other purposes.

Re: Apple blocked the FlickType Watch keyboard then announced a clone of it

#219

Post by Sunspark » Wed, Sep 15, 2021, 2:37 PM UTC

lotsofpulp wrote: post #193

rjzzleep wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For reference[1]. Apple also managed to cause lasting damage to HTC as a brand when they ventured into the US. I don't HTC ever recovered from that, although it might not have been the only problem they had. [1] https://morningconsult.com/opinions/apple-v-samsung-scotus-s...

Seems like small pickles compared to Android brands damaging themselves by not supporting their own devices with software updates after 18 months. That is what drove me away. I assume this is still true, and my iOS devices will receive software updates for longer than Android devices.

I would rather use an unsupported device that has the ability to do a variety of things than a supported device that doesn't allow various features which is the case with iOS for me. With Apple, it's their way or the highway.

Re: Apple blocked the FlickType Watch keyboard then announced a clone of it

#220

Post by judge2020 » Wed, Sep 15, 2021, 2:37 PM UTC

IncRnd wrote: post #213

judge2020 wrote: post #160

Watch keyboard? How does that work? Did it use the iPhone as a proxy to swipe on the watch (since there are obviously no APIs to custom keyboards on the watch).

Your very comment makes it seem as if there was innovation with the keyboard that Apple took.

No, just that there’s no way to create a custom watch keyboard that I know of. I’m wondering if they managed to do so and if it required using private APIs or something.