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China uses anti-fraud app to track access to overseas financial news sites

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Re: China uses anti-fraud app to track access to overseas financial news sites

#151

Post by powerapple »

depaulagu wrote: post #5
trompetenaccoun wrote: post #4

What the CCP's been doing over the past couple of months is worrying. I wish there were a nicer explanation but it almost looks like they're preparing for war, or at least increasing confrontation.

Yep, what the CCP's been doing over the past couple of /decades/ is worrying

Comparing to whom? The last decades of CCP rule is excellent comparing to any other candidates. You want Chinese to believe Afghanistan is better? In past decades, which country started multiple wars? CCP may produced some cheap quality stuff so people in poor country can have cheap stuff, I see it as a plus.

Re: China uses anti-fraud app to track access to overseas financial news sites

#152

Post by ashtonkem »

PicassoCTs wrote: post #149
ashtonkem wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The presumption is that they’d begin building them once they decide that America won’t guarantee their safety, not once China declares war.

China had a one child policy. It cant declare war. Everyone of those soldiers has two generations of parent pensioners depending on it. China is not trying to emulate the us and thus - disregarding the propaganda, not gearing up for war.

> It cant declare war.

History tells us that countries can and do declare war when it would be illogical for them to do so. There was a running theory before WW1 that the economic interconnection of Europe made war impossible, which was obviously false.

Does this mean China is gearing up for war? No. But to declare that China can’t declare war is fairly ahistorical.

> China is not trying to emulate the us … disregarding the propaganda

Ironically, I’d argue that this is propaganda. “We’re not like that other power, we’re so much better” is pretty classic stuff.

Although I’d argue that China isn’t emulating America, I’d argue that China is emulating 19th century Britain with its debt diplomacy.

Re: China uses anti-fraud app to track access to overseas financial news sites

#153

Post by causi »

vkou wrote: post #101
causi wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference is a turn in the tide of public opinion. The real battle, the one for the hearts and minds, has been won. Talk to almost any Chinese national who hasn't had a ton of international exposure, like a fresh international student. They either don't care about what the CCP is doing or they fully agree with the justifications.

You've described the view of most nationals of any country about their country's foreign policy. Remember '03 when two thirds of Americans seemed utterly convinced that Iraq was an existential threat to the security and prosperity of the United States? Or '21, when half of Americans have suddenly remembered that they actually want other people's children to continue fighting a forever war in Afghanistan?

I'm not talking about foreign policy. I'm talking about disappearing dissidents and putting ethnic minorities into reeducation camps.

Re: China uses anti-fraud app to track access to overseas financial news sites

#154

Post by postingawayonhn »

tablespoon wrote: post #49
postingawayonhn wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it is correct that prosperity will eventually bring democracy. Xi sees that too and is busy trying to knock China's wealthy citizens down a couple of notches.

>> I think it is correct that prosperity will eventually bring democracy. > Xi sees that too and is busy trying to knock China's wealthy citizens down a couple of notches. What do billionaire-wealthy citizens have to do with prosperity or democracy (besides the fantasies of pro-billionaire propaganda)?

I didn't say anything about billionaires.

I was talking more broadly about upper-class people in China. Generally anyone who lives in a tier 1 city and has a quality of life approaching that of people in developed nations.

It's easy to keep poor people happy through continued economic growth but once people reach a certain level of material wealth they're going to start demanding more personal freedoms.

Re: China uses anti-fraud app to track access to overseas financial news sites

#155

Post by star-trek-fleet »

bakuninsbart wrote: post #150
star-trek-fleet wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> China still has the official plan to introduce socialism by 2050 Where did you get this? Socialism is installed in China in 1960s, as we were told in text book. If there was such a plan to start socialism in China in 2050, that must be invented after 2008 after I left China. As for what is really socialism, the definitions I see so far are as colorful as capitalism. You might be referring some definition of sociali…

Indeed, translations change a lot, and phrasing also changed over time within China, but you are right to call me out on being imprecise. In german we usually differentiate between socialistic and socialist with the former being the movement working on becoming the second. Still, Marx was already talking about the difference between "lower" communism, socialist mode of production, and "final" communism, the communist…

I am not sure why do you want to keep pushing your idea.

I was born in China. I searched around for 2050 and all it shows was reach socialism modernization. The key is modernization. Not socialism.

Socialism as a social and economic order already reached it's height before 1980s...

Re: China uses anti-fraud app to track access to overseas financial news sites

#156

Post by rjzzleep »

Retric wrote: post #86
rjzzleep wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it's not. That's a gross oversimplification of what is necessary to build a nuke. These arguments have been made over and over about other countries. If Taiwan had anything of the sort, China wouldn't be itching for a fight. It's also doubtful that Japan has any weapons grade plutonium left seeing that they handed over a bunch of it to the US in 2016. "On 24 March 2014, Japan agreed to turn over more than 700 poun…

A gun type nuclear weapon is an extremely simple device, though with relatively low yield. To the point where the US did not feel the need to test it before dropping Little Boy. Weapon delivery systems are a larger issue. As to Japan having weapons grade plutonium or highly enriched uranium, 5 years is a long time in a weapons program. At it’s peak the US was pumping out hundreds of nuclear weapons a year.

Sigh, is that common? You just throw out a bunch of stuff into the room without knowing what you're talking about?

Even Little Boy had 64kg of highly enriched uranium. You can't just highly enrich uranium and have no one notice it.

But EVEN IF you could. Delivering a nuclear warhead is a world of difference 1945 vs. 2021. Air defense systems are massively better, so you can't just fly to chinese airspace and have them not shoot you down. You can't just build a delivery system silently without testing it that penetrates chinas S-400 without problems.

Yeah you can build something in your backyard and then where are you going to blow it up at? Japan can hardly keep chinese fishing boats out of their own waters.

Re: China uses anti-fraud app to track access to overseas financial news sites

#157

Post by vladTheInhaler »

3pt14159 wrote: post #118
dillondoyle wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't buy this. I think it would have been the WORST time for Xi to act or get aggressive. Trump is legitimately unstable and so selfish as to try to use the military and provocations - even on US soil he wanted to deploy forces - to win or fulfill his deluded post election craziness. Just today excerpts came out of Woodward's new book; one revelation is General Milley called up his counterpart in China, kind of ro…

I'm aware of the book and two things can be true at the same time. The clampdown in HK came at a time when Americans were least likely to lead a coordinated effort to punish it. China has been way less cautious over the past four or five years, and I do not think Trump being in office is a coincidence.

Let's not beat around the bush. Trump is not very smart, and not at all well-informed. In fact he actively removed anyone from his inner circle who showed signs of being either of those things. So I think China was able to move confidently in a lot of areas, because they knew Trump and his cabinet would fail to understand the significance of their actions. This includes erosion of democratic norms in Hong Kong - Trump doesn't understand or care about democratic values, and has in fact attacked them himself domestically, so that represented a huge opportunity for China.

At the same time, Trump is deeply insecure, and is attached to the idea of military power somehow reflecting his own masculinity. Look at his tweets in response to North Korea's provocations, for instance, and how he made them all about him personally. So I think China was careful not to take action that would cause Trump to feel slighted or emasculated and feel a need for direct military action.

So within that narrow area of military pride and perhaps domestic manufacturing, Trump represented a real threat of retaliation and escalation, but beyond that he was pretty much asleep at the wheel.

Re: China uses anti-fraud app to track access to overseas financial news sites

#158

Post by burnerid »

sersi wrote: post #8
depaulagu wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, what the CCP's been doing over the past couple of /decades/ is worrying

I'd say there's a clear difference between what they were doing post Deng Xiaoping and what they've been doing since Xi Jinping came to power. It's much more worrying now. I remember 15-20 years ago, my friends in China had hope that eventually it would open up but there's no longer any hope there. The few friends who are still outspoken (and are much much more careful than they used to be) now have no hope of this w…

There is thing called survival bias. Your friend could have similar thoughts with you and then you became friend.

There are many reasons you don't hear how majority Chinese think, it could be majority of them doesn't read/speak english, it could be toxic comments and community environment prevented them from speaking out, it could be media biased reports, and not mention a lot of advanced countries' supremacy.

If you are not faimilar with that, try to talk with people lived in super rich neighborhood and super poor neighborhood, you'd be amazed how difference people really think and speak out.

If the same thing happens in different regions/countries of the world are treated differntly, in a lot of ways, is called bias, not a serious thinking.

Re: China uses anti-fraud app to track access to overseas financial news sites

#159

Post by throwaway_2047 »

justicezyx wrote: post #145
throwaway_2047 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to live in Hong Kong. In the past 2 year situation has been Orwellian. News outlet being shutdown, pro-democratic parties dismissed, charities disbanded, whole members of political party got arrested, among others. At least 1% of the population fled the city in the first half of 2021. In a parallel universe, and completely unrelated note, my friends in China, thinks their country can finally stand-up against t…

> [1] Clam down on Apple Daily, the only pro-democratic (that I know of) news outlet in Hong Kong Apple Daily (Chinese: 蘋果日報) was a tabloid-style newspaper published in Hong Kong from 1995 to 2021. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Daily If apple daily is the only pro democracy, which is a tabloid style newspaper, the conclusion is that HK democracy is likely a very poor one. If apple daily is not the only pro demo…

Thank you so much for taking the time to read the news. It is heartwarming to me. I will respond to the best of my knowledge.

> If apple daily is the only pro democracy, which is a tabloid style newspaper, the conclusion is that HK democracy is likely a very poor one.

Hong Kong doesn't have true democracy. On surface it might follow the British system [0]. The chief executive, the equivalent of mayor, is elected by the election committee of 1,200 members [1]. Slightly over half of the legislative council, the equivalent of the parliament, is the "functional constituency", which means those members are appointed by selected member of selected industries [2]. Hong Kong has been pushing for universal suffrage every year. Every year, peaceful demonstration is seen on 1st of July to ask for reforming the election[3]

> It seems the market welcomes that...

It is more nuanced. Some are market manipulation. Some wants to support Jimmy Lai. There were people spreading rumours on lihkg.com, the hong kong reddit, that buying stock of apple daily can financially support the company. There are people thinking the company will soon be de-listed, which is more likely true, hence want a piece of history by getting a physical stock. Some want to make a profit by riding the market trend hence perpetuating the rising trend.

> your number is just applications.

You are right. Some factor to consider:

- the numbers I quoted is for the UK only. US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and Taiwan are the other company choices

- There are around 300,000 Canadian in HK. They can leave anytime [4]. And there are many holders of other citizenship whom returned HK after the 90s migration, sensing that HK weren't as bad as imagined.

> They seem are disqualified on the new oath rule?

The new oath rule was imposed after the election if I remember correctly. And there is no governance over the execution of the rule. It's basically up to whoever in position thinks you violated the rule. No proof is needed.

> non profit disbanded fearing of crackdown.

I might have misused the term charity. Non-profit fearing crackdown is still wrong, right? It was a non-profit for visiting inmate, so they feel cared, after all

> it helps to guide the democracy sentiment of the society

People leaving the city are those either who care about democracy or who care about economy. So I hold opposite opinion. Time will tell.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separation_of_powers_in_Hong_K...

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Election_Committee_(Hong_Kong)

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Functional_constituency_(Hong_...

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hong_Kong_1_July_marches

[4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadians_in_Hong_Kong

Re: China uses anti-fraud app to track access to overseas financial news sites

#160

Post by justicezyx »

throwaway_2047 wrote: post #159
justicezyx wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> [1] Clam down on Apple Daily, the only pro-democratic (that I know of) news outlet in Hong Kong Apple Daily (Chinese: 蘋果日報) was a tabloid-style newspaper published in Hong Kong from 1995 to 2021. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Daily If apple daily is the only pro democracy, which is a tabloid style newspaper, the conclusion is that HK democracy is likely a very poor one. If apple daily is not the only pro demo…

Thank you so much for taking the time to read the news. It is heartwarming to me. I will respond to the best of my knowledge. > If apple daily is the only pro democracy, which is a tabloid style newspaper, the conclusion is that HK democracy is likely a very poor one. Hong Kong doesn't have true democracy. On surface it might follow the British system [0]. The chief executive, the equivalent of mayor, is elected by t…

> People leaving the city are those either who care about democracy or who care about economy. So I hold opposite opinion. Time will tell.

I never really understand these pro-democracy people. On the one hand, they seem wholeheartedly believe in the noble ideology. On the other hand, they seem are so timid that their only reaction under concrete threat is fleeing away.

Did they forgot how the American Forefathers fight for their independence, freedom, and democracy?

Are they really this naive that CCP are going to hand over democracy to them?

As for HK economy, CCP can make Macau prosper, I see no chance HK economy can flop. Good luck with fleeing HK and demonstrate the "pro democracy"...

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