Live data from Hacker News

Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

bmj.com

921–930 of 1001 posts

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#921

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Peevish attitude -- as if getting a vaccine is a deep personal choice. Bodily integrity is a deep personal thing. “My body, my choice” isn’t it?

Can people please stop using that chant? It's not relevant. It was never used for what you're using it for. It was an overly general chant used to push a very specific policy goal. Bodily integrity isn't a blanket rule. You have it only insofar as it doesn't harm others. Abortion, HRT, plastic surgery... fall into that category. Willingly spreading a deadly disease despite an easy and safe-ish preventative option doe…

[deleted]

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#922

Because it's a terrible policy prescription. If natural immunity is acceptable, what proportion of the unvaccinated-uninfected population will just take the risk? Half? More? Millions of people will just (continue to) take the risk, get sick, go to hospital, and die (in decreasing proportions), incurring substantial personal and social costs along the way. Accepting only vaccination as evidence of protection reduces…

WXYZ-TV posted the following question on facebook a few days ago and received 155k responses. "After the vaccines were available to everyone, did you lose an unvaccinated loved one to COVID-19? " https://www.facebook.com/80221381134/posts/10158207967261135... The responses are not what you would expect. Certainly not what the media narrative is.

Cannot access to the comments without an account.

Regardless of what it is said, why should we trust those unverifiable comments, full of anecdotes instead of peer-review scientifics works?

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#923
post #917

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Seethe and cope, because at the end of the day you are a slave, and I will never be. See, I'm not that petty, and I mostly content myself with living in a country where hospitalization rates are at a record low thanks to vaccine mandates. I don't need to seethe or think about it that much. But if I were that petty, I think my seething and coping would be abated by the knowledge a lot of you people are dying these d…

> a lot of you people are dying these days What's the death rate again?

In the US, about a thousand a day averaged over the pandemic, I believe.

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#924
post #556
post #498

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No one has died getting their immunity from the vaccine Wow. Really? No one? There are 13k+ COVID-19 vaccine related deaths on VAERS alone. Those are ONLY the ones that have been certified and given a permanent VAERS number (as opposed to a temporary VAERS number that is given out initially). The report submission process is time consuming, most of those are submitted by doctors and it's a crime to submit false inf…

As far as I can tell, that's misinformation. https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-covid19-vaers-idUS... > According to CDC guidance listed on its page reporting adverse events from COVID-19 vaccines, seen here , there have been 6,340 reports of death (0.0019%) recorded from December 14, 2020, to July 26, 2021 "among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine." It is important to note that the "FDA requires healthcar…

Firstly these "fact check" websites, including Reuters have become a joke.

They clearly have an agenda and many also have conflicts of interest.

They pretend that just because they call themselves "fact checkers" it automatically makes everything they say true. They have nameless faceless self-proclaimed "experts" that often make a straw man and "fact check" the straw man as false and call it a day.

And a naive person just googles a few keywords, sees the - usually first link - "Fact-check: that thing you were told is totally wrong" article and thinks "Hah! Fact checkers say it's false! Debunked misinformation again!"

Big pharma has billions of dollars of interests to protect. The average so called "anti vax" person has nothing to gain or lose from whether other people do or don't take a vaccine. So a rational person should not so easily accept the commercial propaganda pushed by these companies.

Secondly health care professionals submit the report when they have reason to believe that it is a "vaccine adverse event". Otherwise the "event" is not relevant, the person will not even consider or bother to make the report to begin with.

"even if it is unclear whether the vaccine was the cause" part is a technicality because yes at the time they are submitting it "is not clear" if vaccine is indeed the cause and it is to be investigated.

They will then contact the person that submitted it and if it's a valid report they will assign a permanent number to the report.

There are many obstacles to submitting the report. And since it is voluntary it is under counting.

In Australia 9 deaths are officially accepted as vaccine-related. Again unlike with covid they do anything they can to keep this number low. It is a minimum.

I don't claim to know what the actual number is but it absolutely positively is not ZERO.

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#925
post #620

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Should we tell people to get their BMI under 25 too? >What about drinking and smoking? There's a lot of investment in trying to fix these problems already, or at least offset the costs. For example, there are "sin taxes" for things like cigarettes and alcohol, which means smokers and drinkers are paying disproportionately more taxes than those that don't. You could argue that overweight folks are also paying disprop…

> You could argue that overweight folks are also paying disproportionately more simply by buying more food than someone who weighs 20% less. Overweight people pay their tax in a significant decrease in their quality of life. Eating unhealthy is way way cheaper. I can confirm both after 170lbs of weight loss. My food budget quadrupled. Rice, pasta, and white bread are cheap. Meat and veggies, not so much.

The 'ill or obese' analogy isn't very good because it doesn't capture the contagious effects, which is the artifact of COVID that makes it different than other health and safety issues.

We don't stop people from going to the theatre because they have diabetes or cancer.

COVID is a highly contagious disease, that's what makes it a community problem, not an individual problem.

It's a more akin to having proper winter tires while driving: while it's mostly an issue of personal safety, there are other cars on the road who will mostly likely end up in an accident with you, and so there's an externalization there.

Now imagine if you got someone in an accident because you didn't have winter tires, and they also had some material degree of getting someone in an accident (i.e. if there is an R0 > 1, they will likely also crash with someone). Then the whole highways is jammed up, and everyone is affected.

It's the contagion that makes it a problem.

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#926
post #893

Comment section here proving once again that high IQ nerds are, when it comes to the stuff that actually matters, overtly authoritarian. You might be all for giving children hormone blockers and championing the right to vote without ID, but it turns out the liberalism was just a LARP all along. I am fortunate to be in a position where my livelihood is not being threatened, and I will never get an unnecessary medical…

I completely agree, although I don't really see too many "high IQ" comments here.

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#927
post #498

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No one has died getting their immunity from the vaccine Wow. Really? No one? There are 13k+ COVID-19 vaccine related deaths on VAERS alone. Those are ONLY the ones that have been certified and given a permanent VAERS number (as opposed to a temporary VAERS number that is given out initially). The report submission process is time consuming, most of those are submitted by doctors and it's a crime to submit false inf…

YEAH, as others have said, there is no verification of VAERS. Anyone can submit.

Those reports that have a permanent VAERS number assigned are one-by-one manually verified by contacting and discussing the report with the person that submitted it.

VAERS is not an internet comment box.

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#928

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Peevish attitude -- as if getting a vaccine is a deep personal choice. Bodily integrity is a deep personal thing. “My body, my choice” isn’t it?

Can people please stop using that chant? It's not relevant. It was never used for what you're using it for. It was an overly general chant used to push a very specific policy goal. Bodily integrity isn't a blanket rule. You have it only insofar as it doesn't harm others. Abortion, HRT, plastic surgery... fall into that category. Willingly spreading a deadly disease despite an easy and safe-ish preventative option doe…

I think all your examples are wrong. I am for abortion, but the bodily integrity argument is just plainly bad because it relies on axioms that the child isn't a fully developed human.

I support abortion rights but hate this argument in particular, because bodily integrity of the child would be of interest as well.

HRT and plastic surgery are irrelevant here since they are voluntary choices.

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#929
post #893

Comment section here proving once again that high IQ nerds are, when it comes to the stuff that actually matters, overtly authoritarian. You might be all for giving children hormone blockers and championing the right to vote without ID, but it turns out the liberalism was just a LARP all along. I am fortunate to be in a position where my livelihood is not being threatened, and I will never get an unnecessary medical…

> Seethe and cope, because at the end of the day you are a slave, and I will never be. See, I'm not that petty, and I mostly content myself with living in a country where hospitalization rates are at a record low thanks to vaccine mandates. I don't need to seethe or think about it that much. But if I were that petty, I think my seething and coping would be abated by the knowledge a lot of you people are dying these d…

My country has no mandates and ICU usage from Covid is under 10%. There is a policy in place that will increase measures when ICU occupancy from COVID rises to 10% - 20%.

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#930
post #189

The answer is pretty simple - the moment authorities start saying "well, natural immunity is probably just as good as vaccination, we'll accept that as equal to vaccination for passport purposes", a huge segment of the population who's on the fence about getting the vaccine might just opt to wait until they're infected naturally, or, even worse, get infected purposefully (EG, chicken pox parties). Which leads to more…

I think this is mostly correct but the distrust was partly earned and vaccine mandates don't really help here.
Post reply on HN