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Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

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Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#911

Post by sjg007 »

ixacto wrote: post #536
kristjansson wrote: post #525

Because it's a terrible policy prescription. If natural immunity is acceptable, what proportion of the unvaccinated-uninfected population will just take the risk? Half? More? Millions of people will just (continue to) take the risk, get sick, go to hospital, and die (in decreasing proportions), incurring substantial personal and social costs along the way. Accepting only vaccination as evidence of protection reduces…

To reply as the devils advocate to this comment, what is the tolerance to social costs that society is willing to bear? Also why would one segment of society have to do something that it doesn't want e.g. not bear risk if they want to? Should we tell people to get their BMI under 25 too? Overweight and obesity are going to cost much more in increased healthcare costs than COVID will in the coming decades (pls prove m…

> Should we tell people to get their BMI under 25 too? Overweight and obesity are going to cost much more in increased healthcare costs than COVID will in the coming decades (pls prove me wrong..).

You are the one making this claim. Back it up with some evidence.

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#912

Post by throwawaylinux »

emn13 wrote: post #896
throwawaylinux wrote: post #746

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It does because you place disproportionate strain on the healthcare system, which limits its accessibility to others. There also is a 100% successful method for losing weight, it's just that people can't or choose not to follow it, but we could mandate it and force them to. For their own good and the good of the healthcare system. (We probably should not mandate that or any other drug or medical treatment)

Do you really believe that mandating people do a difficult, time consuming task for years is reasonably equivalent to mandating them to get two shots, which take about 5 minutes each? If no, then whatever the merits of your conclusion it certainly doesn't follow from the comparison made.

No, it takes no time to eat less (it takes less time in fact), or stand on a scale once a week. In the weeks between the two shots (are we ruling out boosters?), a person could easily have lost several pounds and didn't even have to step out of the house into the risky possibly covid-filled environment -- already a significant improvement and reduction on the stress of the healthcare system. So losing weight is actually much easier, less time consuming task than to get vaccinated.

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#913

Post by franga2000 »

ghostwriter wrote: post #903
s_dev wrote: post #897

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Seethe and cope, because at the end of the day you are a slave, and I will never be. Peevish attitude -- as if getting a vaccine is a deep personal choice. It's not really. It's a public health issue and like masks you protect others around you from getting disease. Ironically you depend on others doing the right thing to enjoy your little freedoms.

> Peevish attitude -- as if getting a vaccine is a deep personal choice. Bodily integrity is a deep personal thing. “My body, my choice” isn’t it?

Can people please stop using that chant? It's not relevant. It was never used for what you're using it for. It was an overly general chant used to push a very specific policy goal.

Bodily integrity isn't a blanket rule. You have it only insofar as it doesn't harm others. Abortion, HRT, plastic surgery... fall into that category. Willingly spreading a deadly disease despite an easy and safe-ish preventative option does not.

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#914

Post by louissm_it »

d1a2n wrote: post #893

Comment section here proving once again that high IQ nerds are, when it comes to the stuff that actually matters, overtly authoritarian. You might be all for giving children hormone blockers and championing the right to vote without ID, but it turns out the liberalism was just a LARP all along. I am fortunate to be in a position where my livelihood is not being threatened, and I will never get an unnecessary medical…

That's fine, just stay away from our towns and businesses where you can endanger people who care about each other. Your livelihood may not be threatened, mine isn't either - but you're probably threatening someone else's.

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#915

Post by PoignardAzur »

d1a2n wrote: post #893

Comment section here proving once again that high IQ nerds are, when it comes to the stuff that actually matters, overtly authoritarian. You might be all for giving children hormone blockers and championing the right to vote without ID, but it turns out the liberalism was just a LARP all along. I am fortunate to be in a position where my livelihood is not being threatened, and I will never get an unnecessary medical…

> Seethe and cope, because at the end of the day you are a slave, and I will never be.

See, I'm not that petty, and I mostly content myself with living in a country where hospitalization rates are at a record low thanks to vaccine mandates. I don't need to seethe or think about it that much.

But if I were that petty, I think my seething and coping would be abated by the knowledge a lot of you people are dying these days, unless they can afford top-of-the-line fetus-based therapy.

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#916

Post by sbilstein »

dkdk8283 wrote: post #857
kristjansson wrote: post #525

Because it's a terrible policy prescription. If natural immunity is acceptable, what proportion of the unvaccinated-uninfected population will just take the risk? Half? More? Millions of people will just (continue to) take the risk, get sick, go to hospital, and die (in decreasing proportions), incurring substantial personal and social costs along the way. Accepting only vaccination as evidence of protection reduces…

This is absurd. Vaccine efficacy is measured against natural antibodies resulting from a recovery. I cannot get the vaccine and I’m effectively a second class citizen. I was sick and recovered - my immune system is working as designed.

what is stopping you from getting the vaccine?

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#917

Post by d1a2n »

PoignardAzur wrote: post #915
d1a2n wrote: post #893

Comment section here proving once again that high IQ nerds are, when it comes to the stuff that actually matters, overtly authoritarian. You might be all for giving children hormone blockers and championing the right to vote without ID, but it turns out the liberalism was just a LARP all along. I am fortunate to be in a position where my livelihood is not being threatened, and I will never get an unnecessary medical…

> Seethe and cope, because at the end of the day you are a slave, and I will never be. See, I'm not that petty, and I mostly content myself with living in a country where hospitalization rates are at a record low thanks to vaccine mandates. I don't need to seethe or think about it that much. But if I were that petty, I think my seething and coping would be abated by the knowledge a lot of you people are dying these d…

> a lot of you people are dying these days

What's the death rate again?

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#918

Post by enaaem »

ixacto wrote: post #536
kristjansson wrote: post #525

Because it's a terrible policy prescription. If natural immunity is acceptable, what proportion of the unvaccinated-uninfected population will just take the risk? Half? More? Millions of people will just (continue to) take the risk, get sick, go to hospital, and die (in decreasing proportions), incurring substantial personal and social costs along the way. Accepting only vaccination as evidence of protection reduces…

To reply as the devils advocate to this comment, what is the tolerance to social costs that society is willing to bear? Also why would one segment of society have to do something that it doesn't want e.g. not bear risk if they want to? Should we tell people to get their BMI under 25 too? Overweight and obesity are going to cost much more in increased healthcare costs than COVID will in the coming decades (pls prove m…

From risk management perspective obesity and pandemics have completely different risk characteristics. Pandemics are contagious and deaths can grow exponentially, leading to catastrophic outcomes. Obesity is constraint to individuals.

On the other hand. A vaccine that is not as rigorously tested as normal and is used on 80% of the population can also lead to catastrophic results. No one really knows the long term effects for sure. So I understand the paranoia on two sides.

You actually want to use as many different vaccines as possible so no single vaccine can exterminate your population. That’s why I belief natural immunity should be counted as a valid ‘vaccine’, if the science shows it offers similar protection.

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#919

Post by BoxOfRain »

throwawaylinux wrote: post #741
fuzxi wrote: post #726

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>One takes a couple minutes and the other is something requiring an hour or more of dedicated time per day for potentially years (or a whole lifetime! Nope. You don't have to dedicate time to exercising to lose weight, you can just eat less.

You could even have mandates. Exclude them from eating at restaurants or fast food places and ensure they don't purchase too much or unhealthy food. Not only would it be for Their Own Good™ , but if it saved just one innocent life due to reducing the load on the healthcare system, it would have been worth it. /s of course - I'm not a lunatic.

>Not only would it be for Their Own Good™, but if it saved just one innocent life due to reducing the load on the healthcare system, it would have been worth it.

There's so many people who seem to draw a completely arbitrary line between authoritarianism and paternalism despite them being exactly the same thing with different justifications. I don't care if it's "for my own good" or "because I said so", I oppose authoritarianism in general on principle rather than justifying authoritarianism towards things I happen to like with a different name.

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#920

Post by [deleted] »

dkdk8283 wrote: post #857
kristjansson wrote: post #525

Because it's a terrible policy prescription. If natural immunity is acceptable, what proportion of the unvaccinated-uninfected population will just take the risk? Half? More? Millions of people will just (continue to) take the risk, get sick, go to hospital, and die (in decreasing proportions), incurring substantial personal and social costs along the way. Accepting only vaccination as evidence of protection reduces…

This is absurd. Vaccine efficacy is measured against natural antibodies resulting from a recovery. I cannot get the vaccine and I’m effectively a second class citizen. I was sick and recovered - my immune system is working as designed.

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