Earlier quoted context omitted.
Covid is contagious, obesity is not.
Getting vaccinated doesn't prevent you from spreading covid.
It significantly reduces the chances of spreading it…
Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?
751–760 of 1001 posts
Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?
#752Earlier quoted context omitted.
It should count. But why test for it and why expect proof? If someone is concerned, get vaccinated if you don't have antibodies already. And wear a mask when cases go above N in your area. Problem solved. What use is there to build systems of control that will turn into more surveillance and eventual enslavement?
>What use is there to build systems of control that will turn into more surveillance and eventual enslavement? After the seatbelt laws came in, I didn't wear my seat belt. Before I new it, I was arrested. They sent me to a prison work camp. I had to work 14 hours a day. I nearly died of starvation. (The food was crap, I couldn't keep it down.) Fortunately, a guard took pity on me, and I managed to escape. I'm safe no…
Taking a medication as a condition of maintaining basic human rights, or merely existing is a long bridge to cross. This bears no equivalency to a seat belt.
We know the shots don’t prevent spread, nor prevent you from getting it, the only argument is it lessens severity of symptoms, yet many are dying after the shots anyways and being hospitalized.
So you are basically arguing they I need to take a medicine that supposedly reduces symptoms, although in practice it isn’t showing that effect, but carries other potential negative health effects unique to the shot itself.
A more analogous car argument is that I would be required by law to pick up random hitch hikers everyday and drive them to their destination as a condition of owning and driving a vehicle, especially if we are working off the public good argument. If I refuse, I lose the car. Most likely 98% of those hitch hikers won’t chop me up into little pieces in the middle of the desert, but there is always that one...
Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?
#753Earlier quoted context omitted.
Past covid gives antibodies that are superior to two shots of Pfizer. https://www.science.org/content/article/having-sars-cov-2-on... So yes, it IS just as good as the vaccination and should be treated as such. Vaccinating people for the sake of vaccinating them is illogical here. And don't even get me started on vaccine passports, which are completely unnecessary. If a place of employment absolutely needs proof of v…
I would hesitate to take one study as definitive either way. Also, I've seen data pointing to important variables of possible interest moderating the potential effectiveness, including age, and severity of first infection.
Please hestitate after providing your sources.
Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?
#754Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Because it's a terrible policy prescription. If natural immunity is acceptable, what proportion of the unvaccinated-uninfected population will just take the risk? Half? More? What we know : We know that vaccines are of great value for high risk populations. We know that vaccines are contraindicated for a number of patients and have some pretty severe side effects for those with allergies. We know that the vaccines…
>We also know that the Covid vaccines are not immunizing, and a large amount of virus can be passed on from vaccinated, to the unvaccinated. I'm flagging this as dubious. Everything I've seen points to smaller viral load and shorter durations for breakthroughs.
> I'm flagging this as dubious. Everything I've seen points to smaller viral load and shorter durations for breakthroughs.
You can flag something as dubious all you want, but you are missing the point, and seeking to redefine something to meet your objectives, rather than having a science based approach.
There are immunizing/sterilizing vaccines, and non-immunizing/non-sterilizing vaccines.
Covid vaccines, in their present 1st and 2nd generation versions are non-immunizing/non-sterilizing. You can still get covid, just your symptoms are likely to be less.
Here is an article on it, since you claimed my data was dubious. Therefore, I say your attack on my data is actually dubious.
https://thehill.com/changing-america/well-being/prevention-c...
Some researchers have already proposed that the evidence of human natural immunity provides data for future vaccines in future generations to target the Covid virii in other ways beyond the mere spike protein.
> Virus-specific CD4+ and CD8+ T cells are polyfunctional and maintained with an estimated half-life of 200 days. Interestingly, CD4+ T cell responses equally target several SARS-CoV-2 proteins, whereas the CD8+ T cell responses preferentially target the nucleoprotein, highlighting the potential importance of including the nucleoprotein in future vaccines. Taken together, these results suggest that broad and effective immunity may persist long-term in recovered COVID-19 patients.
from https://doi.org/10.1016/j.cell.2021.01.007
Let's hope you don't come up with another spurious claim!
Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?
#755Earlier quoted context omitted.
It never took that large of a percentage of the population to get sick at once to overwhelm hospital capacity. Some tenths of a percent could probably it. 35% of the population vulnerable means there's plenty of room for that. Enough people do OK w/o interventions that "social collapse" probably wasn't ever going to be the outcome (short of more virulent variants), it's just whether more or fewer of the people for wh…
Either the vaccine works or it doesn't. So why are the numbers going up if it's working?
Way more contagious variant that spreads rapidly among people w/o prior immunity? At least that's what is being theorized based on what happened in the UK (very sharp rise in cases, followed by pretty sharp drop-off, although that seemed to stabilize now).
As for the effectiveness of vaccinations, I'm optimistic based on the data from King County, WA: https://kingcounty.gov/depts/health/covid-19/data/vaccinatio...
Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?
#756Earlier quoted context omitted.
> You could argue that overweight folks are also paying disproportionately more simply by buying more food than someone who weighs 20% less. Overweight people pay their tax in a significant decrease in their quality of life. Eating unhealthy is way way cheaper. I can confirm both after 170lbs of weight loss. My food budget quadrupled. Rice, pasta, and white bread are cheap. Meat and veggies, not so much.
Carbohydrates are not inherently unhealthy.
They are when you are a type 2 diabetic and your body cannot handle them properly.
Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?
#757Earlier quoted context omitted.
There's no evidence that having the vaccine stops you from developing natural immunity if you have a breakthrough. If the vaccine fails you then you will get covid (like you would have in the same situation without vaccine) and will develop natural immunity then.
Even if you do get a breakthrough, chance of not going to a hospital is significantly lower. https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsde...
I think you had an extra 'not' and meant something like 'Even if you do get a breakthrough, chances of going to a hospital is significantly lower.'
Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?
#758Earlier quoted context omitted.
I wish I could say that if authorities hadn't lied about, say, masks or this stuff with natural immunity, things would gone a lot better and people would have behaved much more rationally about COVID, but I don't think that's true. I've got family in a small town in the south - the countermeasures they took against COVID basically amounted to Wal-Mart closing for a weekend in March. Most of the people there had made…
> if authorities hadn't lied about, say, masks or this stuff When did authorities lie? The position on masks changed over time as data was acquired. Unless you mean when the FDA/CDC was worried about a run on masks, which they were right about. But I think ascribing a malicious intent to that learning process is disingenuous. The only people that have made literally malicious claims have been people on the far-right,…
Here are a few to get you started: https://slate.com/technology/2021/07/noble-lies-covid-fauci-...
Your team allegiance is showing.
Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?
#759Earlier quoted context omitted.
>One takes a couple minutes and the other is something requiring an hour or more of dedicated time per day for potentially years (or a whole lifetime! Nope. You don't have to dedicate time to exercising to lose weight, you can just eat less.
Nope. Doesn’t work that way. When you eat less, your body goes into starvation mode and burns fewer calories. And some bodies are extremely resistant to losing weight under any circumstances. Try doing the German prisoner of war diet for a year, and accurately track on a daily basis how many calories you eat, and how much weight you lose. Then you can come back and tell us your anecdote of how you personally respond…
That is a coping mechanism for the obese. It is simply not true.
Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?
#760Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Let's say, hypothetically, there existed a free shot which would immediately make its recipient a perfectly lean 20 BMI and grants all the benefits of health and exercise without the work I would be very skeptical and wonder what the downside is
What if the downside was well studied and not reported on? [1] https://media.patriots.win/post/nWnEYVAL.jpeg
The CDC saw roughly 1300 cases of myocarditis or myopericarditis reported in mRNA vaccine recipients under 29 years old, after administering 52 million doses to that same age group, a minuscule risk and one much lower than that presented by COVID-19. [1]
And even then, in those cases, the vast majority resolve on their own with minimal medical intervention. [2]
But hey, have a link to the CDC source of that presentation so you don’t have to go to that .win site anymore to find your sources. They’re pretty bad at sourcing information over there [3]
[1] https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7027e2.htm
[2] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8321962/
[3] https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/acip/meetings/downloads/slides-...