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Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

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Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#721

Post by thebraxton »

chiefalchemist wrote: post #693
glangdale wrote: post #575

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aside from DUI risk and passive smoking, most of these risks are specific to the person. I can't catch obesity from being in the same room as a obese person, and while public health costs go up from drinkers/smokers/heavy people, I haven't heard of ambulances being gridlocked outside a hospital due to a spike of lifestyle diseases.

> Aside from DUI risk and passive smoking, most of these risks are specific to the person. I can't catch obesity from being in the same room as... That's not entirely accurate. Human behavior is effectively viral (per any of the Jonah Berger books among others). What we see becomes the norm, a behavioral norm. Smoking has decreased because it has become "less fashionable." And so on. So while you might not catch obes…

Even though a large percentage of us adults are obese I don't consider it normalized since it'd a target of ridicule, there's a massive industry around losing weight, and I'm assuming if you ask most fat people if they want to be thin they would say yes.

For fitness I do want to be fair and point out general health and muscle building are parts of that health industry

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#722

Post by dukeofdoom »

kristjansson wrote: post #525

Because it's a terrible policy prescription. If natural immunity is acceptable, what proportion of the unvaccinated-uninfected population will just take the risk? Half? More? Millions of people will just (continue to) take the risk, get sick, go to hospital, and die (in decreasing proportions), incurring substantial personal and social costs along the way. Accepting only vaccination as evidence of protection reduces…

WXYZ-TV posted the following question on facebook a few days ago and received 155k responses.

"After the vaccines were available to everyone, did you lose an unvaccinated loved one to COVID-19? "

https://www.facebook.com/80221381134/posts/10158207967261135...

The responses are not what you would expect. Certainly not what the media narrative is.

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#724

Post by OrvalWintermute »

opnitro wrote: post #638
OrvalWintermute wrote: post #622

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Because it's a terrible policy prescription. If natural immunity is acceptable, what proportion of the unvaccinated-uninfected population will just take the risk? Half? More? What we know : We know that vaccines are of great value for high risk populations. We know that vaccines are contraindicated for a number of patients and have some pretty severe side effects for those with allergies. We know that the vaccines…

You provide 3 sources, yet don't cite a source for the claim that ~10k have died from the vaccine. Could we have a citation for that one?

I actually looked in VAERS and did an export of the accessible data. Most of the numbers touted are generally around 10k, although VAERS underreporting is a well-known issue, and, VAERS data quality is suspect in the first place, by design.

If you want a website that has more data though:

https://vaersanalysis.info/2021/09/10/vaers-summary-for-covi...

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#725

Post by thebraxton »

hammock wrote: post #669
TulliusCicero wrote: post #665

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Should we tell people to get their BMI under 25 too? Overweight people can't transmit their overweightness to me through a virus or bacterium that they breathe into the air. If they could, then yeah, we'd probably have some kind of legal mandate on it. Just like we have a bunch of restrictions on smoking now, because indeed, that's something that you push into the air. The general rule is that your rights stop wher…

>Overweight people can't transmit their overweightness to me through a virus or bacterium that they breathe into the air. They can fill up hospital beds though, that might not be available for you when you need one!

I don't think it's whether the beds are filled up, I sure many injuries are carelessness, it's how easy is it to avoid it.

Losing weight is insanely hard getting a shot or two is easy. In fact if you had some kid who was speeding, got into a crash, and is now taking up a bed I'd argue that self control for young adults in related to reckless behavior is much more difficult to stop than not getting a vaccine.

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#726

Post by fuzxi »

MSM wrote: post #620
ixacto wrote: post #536

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To reply as the devils advocate to this comment, what is the tolerance to social costs that society is willing to bear? Also why would one segment of society have to do something that it doesn't want e.g. not bear risk if they want to? Should we tell people to get their BMI under 25 too? Overweight and obesity are going to cost much more in increased healthcare costs than COVID will in the coming decades (pls prove m…

>Should we tell people to get their BMI under 25 too? >What about drinking and smoking? There's a lot of investment in trying to fix these problems already, or at least offset the costs. For example, there are "sin taxes" for things like cigarettes and alcohol, which means smokers and drinkers are paying disproportionately more taxes than those that don't. You could argue that overweight folks are also paying disprop…

>One takes a couple minutes and the other is something requiring an hour or more of dedicated time per day for potentially years (or a whole lifetime!

Nope. You don't have to dedicate time to exercising to lose weight, you can just eat less.

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#727

Post by tommymachine »

dham wrote: post #685
MSM wrote: post #620

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Should we tell people to get their BMI under 25 too? >What about drinking and smoking? There's a lot of investment in trying to fix these problems already, or at least offset the costs. For example, there are "sin taxes" for things like cigarettes and alcohol, which means smokers and drinkers are paying disproportionately more taxes than those that don't. You could argue that overweight folks are also paying disprop…

> Let's say, hypothetically, there existed a free shot which would immediately make its recipient a perfectly lean 20 BMI and grants all the benefits of health and exercise without the work I would be very skeptical and wonder what the downside is

What if the downside was well studied and not reported on?

[1] https://media.patriots.win/post/nWnEYVAL.jpeg

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#728

Post by jonnycomputer »

mythrwy wrote: post #680
jonnycomputer wrote: post #670

Earlier quoted context omitted.

- The vaccine hasn't been evaded. The efficacy has been slightly reduced. - Not all vaccines need be quite so targeted. - Naturally acquired immunity can also be evaded.

If a person is infected, it has been evaded. Period.

Define what it means for a person to be infected.

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#729

Post by fuzxi »

jonny_eh wrote: post #714
MSM wrote: post #620

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Should we tell people to get their BMI under 25 too? >What about drinking and smoking? There's a lot of investment in trying to fix these problems already, or at least offset the costs. For example, there are "sin taxes" for things like cigarettes and alcohol, which means smokers and drinkers are paying disproportionately more taxes than those that don't. You could argue that overweight folks are also paying disprop…

Covid is contagious, obesity is not.

Getting vaccinated doesn't prevent you from spreading covid.

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#730

Post by h2odragon »

grey413 wrote: post #571
borplk wrote: post #498

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No one has died getting their immunity from the vaccine Wow. Really? No one? There are 13k+ COVID-19 vaccine related deaths on VAERS alone. Those are ONLY the ones that have been certified and given a permanent VAERS number (as opposed to a temporary VAERS number that is given out initially). The report submission process is time consuming, most of those are submitted by doctors and it's a crime to submit false inf…

VAERS reports can (and should) be done for any death following vaccination, whether or not anyone thinks that death was vaccine-related. There's no evidence that the "13k+ COVID-19 vaccine related deaths" are anything of the sort; VEARS is simply not the sort of scientific study that can provide that sort of evidence. VEARS can throw up red flags for safety halts and further study (as happened with the Johnson and Jo…

"COVID Cases" turns out to be anyone with covid who might be in the hospital for anything else. COVID deaths have included people "greedily" the same way. Shouldn't the vaccine be counted by the same standards and the same statistical methods used?
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