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Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

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Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#741

Post by throwawaylinux »

fuzxi wrote: post #726
MSM wrote: post #620

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Should we tell people to get their BMI under 25 too? >What about drinking and smoking? There's a lot of investment in trying to fix these problems already, or at least offset the costs. For example, there are "sin taxes" for things like cigarettes and alcohol, which means smokers and drinkers are paying disproportionately more taxes than those that don't. You could argue that overweight folks are also paying disprop…

>One takes a couple minutes and the other is something requiring an hour or more of dedicated time per day for potentially years (or a whole lifetime! Nope. You don't have to dedicate time to exercising to lose weight, you can just eat less.

You could even have mandates. Exclude them from eating at restaurants or fast food places and ensure they don't purchase too much or unhealthy food.

Not only would it be for Their Own Good™, but if it saved just one innocent life due to reducing the load on the healthcare system, it would have been worth it.

/s of course - I'm not a lunatic.

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#742

Post by slumpt_ »

fuzxi wrote: post #726
MSM wrote: post #620

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Should we tell people to get their BMI under 25 too? >What about drinking and smoking? There's a lot of investment in trying to fix these problems already, or at least offset the costs. For example, there are "sin taxes" for things like cigarettes and alcohol, which means smokers and drinkers are paying disproportionately more taxes than those that don't. You could argue that overweight folks are also paying disprop…

>One takes a couple minutes and the other is something requiring an hour or more of dedicated time per day for potentially years (or a whole lifetime! Nope. You don't have to dedicate time to exercising to lose weight, you can just eat less.

Also not trivial, given the legitimate hunger and compulsion someone with an overeating problem may have after suffering with it for years.

So yes, not an explicit time dedication, but you’re being pedantic at that point and the practical reality that a vaccine is a minimal inconvenience is reasonably unavoidable.

Obviously exceptions exist, which is what medical exceptions are for etc etc.

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#743

Post by throwawaylinux »

jonny_eh wrote: post #714
MSM wrote: post #620

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Should we tell people to get their BMI under 25 too? >What about drinking and smoking? There's a lot of investment in trying to fix these problems already, or at least offset the costs. For example, there are "sin taxes" for things like cigarettes and alcohol, which means smokers and drinkers are paying disproportionately more taxes than those that don't. You could argue that overweight folks are also paying disprop…

Covid is contagious, obesity is not.

Overweight people put disproportionate strain on the healthcare system.

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#744

Post by brendoelfrendo »

fuzxi wrote: post #729
jonny_eh wrote: post #714

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Covid is contagious, obesity is not.

Getting vaccinated doesn't prevent you from spreading covid.

No, but if everyone was vaccinated we’d be a lot less concerned about spread in the first place.

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#745

Post by shard »

jonny_eh wrote: post #714
MSM wrote: post #620

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Should we tell people to get their BMI under 25 too? >What about drinking and smoking? There's a lot of investment in trying to fix these problems already, or at least offset the costs. For example, there are "sin taxes" for things like cigarettes and alcohol, which means smokers and drinkers are paying disproportionately more taxes than those that don't. You could argue that overweight folks are also paying disprop…

Covid is contagious, obesity is not.

I would instead say COVID is physically contagious, while obesity is psychologically and socially contagious.

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#746

Post by throwawaylinux »

js2 wrote: post #737
ixacto wrote: post #536

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To reply as the devils advocate to this comment, what is the tolerance to social costs that society is willing to bear? Also why would one segment of society have to do something that it doesn't want e.g. not bear risk if they want to? Should we tell people to get their BMI under 25 too? Overweight and obesity are going to cost much more in increased healthcare costs than COVID will in the coming decades (pls prove m…

When I drink or smoke or I’m overweight, that doesn’t affect the health of my neighbor. It also doesn’t overcrowd hospitals causing innocent people to die because they can’t find treatment[1]. There also isn’t a vaccine for being overweight. (We should probably mandate seasonal flu vaccines too.) 1. https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/09/12/alabama-ray...

It does because you place disproportionate strain on the healthcare system, which limits its accessibility to others.

There also is a 100% successful method for losing weight, it's just that people can't or choose not to follow it, but we could mandate it and force them to. For their own good and the good of the healthcare system.

(We probably should not mandate that or any other drug or medical treatment)

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#747

Post by bradknowles »

fuzxi wrote: post #726
MSM wrote: post #620

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Should we tell people to get their BMI under 25 too? >What about drinking and smoking? There's a lot of investment in trying to fix these problems already, or at least offset the costs. For example, there are "sin taxes" for things like cigarettes and alcohol, which means smokers and drinkers are paying disproportionately more taxes than those that don't. You could argue that overweight folks are also paying disprop…

>One takes a couple minutes and the other is something requiring an hour or more of dedicated time per day for potentially years (or a whole lifetime! Nope. You don't have to dedicate time to exercising to lose weight, you can just eat less.

Nope. Doesn’t work that way. When you eat less, your body goes into starvation mode and burns fewer calories. And some bodies are extremely resistant to losing weight under any circumstances.

Try doing the German prisoner of war diet for a year, and accurately track on a daily basis how many calories you eat, and how much weight you lose.

Then you can come back and tell us your anecdote of how you personally respond to reduction of calories in your diet. And we can put that drop into the ocean of knowledge.

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#748

Post by gnopgnip »

ixacto wrote: post #536
kristjansson wrote: post #525

Because it's a terrible policy prescription. If natural immunity is acceptable, what proportion of the unvaccinated-uninfected population will just take the risk? Half? More? Millions of people will just (continue to) take the risk, get sick, go to hospital, and die (in decreasing proportions), incurring substantial personal and social costs along the way. Accepting only vaccination as evidence of protection reduces…

To reply as the devils advocate to this comment, what is the tolerance to social costs that society is willing to bear? Also why would one segment of society have to do something that it doesn't want e.g. not bear risk if they want to? Should we tell people to get their BMI under 25 too? Overweight and obesity are going to cost much more in increased healthcare costs than COVID will in the coming decades (pls prove m…

>what is the tolerance to social costs that society is willing to bear? Also why would one segment of society have to do something that it doesn't want e.g. not bear risk if they want to?

Vaccines are already required to attend schools, daycare, college, to immigrate to the US, for many existing federal jobs, to join the military, most jobs in the medical field. These requirements have existed for 20+ years, society has tolerated these costs and benefited greatly.

I could see OSHA having a vaccine mandate that covers TDAP, MMR, polio and Hep B similar to the proposed covid mandate for large employers. But all of these are required to attend school and in other situations, so it isn't needed.

>What about drinking and smoking?

Drunk driving is a crime. Society doesn't tolerate it. We generally limit second hand smoke, banning smoking in restaurants and many other indoor buildings. Requiring vaccination to prevent the spread of infectious disease is analogous.

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#749

Post by jumpkick »

spaginal wrote: post #740
boplicity wrote: post #703

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are assuming that getting vaccinated is a burden, and then comparing it to challenges that many people take years, or longer, to overcome. That makes absolutely no sense. Getting vaccinated takes just a few minutes, and has no long term consequences for virtually everyone, and does not require ongoing effort of any kind. In no way is getting vaccinated comparable to struggling with obesity, quitting cigarettes, o…

They haven’t studied these genetic therapies long term to know if what you assert is the case. We already know there are health issues associated now with the mrna shots. We could see a rash of issues show up in the next couple of years.

“We already know there are health issues associated now with the mrna shots.” What issues? This is the first I’m hearing of this. Details and sources please.

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#750

Post by slumpt_ »

tommymachine wrote: post #727
dham wrote: post #685

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Let's say, hypothetically, there existed a free shot which would immediately make its recipient a perfectly lean 20 BMI and grants all the benefits of health and exercise without the work I would be very skeptical and wonder what the downside is

What if the downside was well studied and not reported on? [1] https://media.patriots.win/post/nWnEYVAL.jpeg

https://www.yalemedicine.org/news/myocarditis-coronavirus-va...

“patriots.win” was a solid red flag.

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