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Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

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Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#301

Post by jowday »

epicureanideal wrote: post #290
jowday wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I pointed this out in my comment - I wish I could say that I think this would have all gone a lot more smoothly if authorities were just honest about things from the start, but I think a lot of the outrage about, say, Fauci lying about masks to try and conserve PPE supplies early on only provided ammo for people who were already going to disregard COVID. At this point I’m not even sure it matters. The states wi…

> Fauci lying about masks to try and conserve PPE supplies Right. It provided proof that the authorities were willing to lie “for the greater good”. So at that point their statements cannot be seen as truthful but only “possibly good for us to believe” (they think). And as soon as people accepted that possibility, combine that with their personal estimate of how often “greater good” might conflict with what they pers…

I think most people who disregarded COVID had made their choice before these lies came to light - it just provided justification for them later on. The small town my family's in in the South's COVID response consisted of closing Wal-Mart for a couple of days in March. Most of the people there had made their choice about how they were going to respond to COVID before the mask discourse happened.

But a lot of these people (perhaps justifiably) already viewed media and public officials as perfectly willing to lie to them or ignore their concerns - this extends beyond the pandemic itself and is part of a broader trend of mutual distrust.

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#302

Post by not2b »

The vaccines are cheap (government paid about $20 per dose to buy them in mass quantities), safe, and effective, and in plentiful supply (at least in developed countries). Even if natural immunity provides some protection, better to just get everyone vaccinated to maximize the protection, because it would cost more to determine that someone has effective antibodies than to just give them the shot. The only reason people are resisting this is because there has been an antivax propaganda campaign.

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#303

Post by Thrymr »

billycorben2 wrote: post #268
KingMachiavelli wrote: post #155

Why? Probably because everyone and their uncle self-diagnosed a bad cold as COVID-19 and plenty more would lie about having natural immunity. Still I don't understand the current approach to COVID in the US. Vaccines are safe and available yet we only just approved the use in children under 12. I have heard second hand many doctors are downplaying the importance of the vaccine for people under 18. On the other hand p…

I am 28. A programmer with a sedentary lifestyle. I was covid positive last October and kicked it fine (verified with a test). I was tested 2 weeks ago for antibodies, my results were a “76” (I assume percentage?). Why should I get vaccinated?

> I was tested 2 weeks ago for antibodies, my results were a “76” (I assume percentage?).

It does not mean percentage. The fact that we cannot directly relate antibody levels to immunological protection is one of the reasons we can't [yet?] use antibody tests to "count" as immunity.

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#304

Post by baseh »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #259
Mikealcl wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure how accurate that is based on the children’s hospitals in the southern United States being at capacity from COVID. Long symptoms have also become an issue in children.

>Long symptoms have also become an issue in children. Source?

>https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01935-7#ref-CR2 >https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7927578/

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#305

Post by Romanulus »

suifbwish wrote: post #263
JoshTriplett wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kids can also be carriers, and more spread among a partially resistant population means more mutation and more variants. Vaccines are in the process of being approved for all ages.

Vaccinated individuals can also carry it. It does not stop spread or contraction. These Vaccines are just supposed to reduce the extreme Symptoms

Vaccines are only helping the rise of variants.

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#306

Post by [deleted] »

SigmundA wrote: post #247
gorwell wrote: post #138

DR. GUPTA: "I get calls all the time, people say, 'I've already had COVID, I'm protected.' And now the study says maybe even more protected than the vaccine alone. Should they also get the vaccine?" DR. FAUCI: "I don't have a really firm answer for you on that." https://twitter.com/Breaking911/status/1436417459314171904

I think the full response better convey's his position: "You know, that's a really good point, Sanjay. I don't have a really firm answer for you on that. That's something that we're going to have to discuss regarding the durability of the response. The one thing that paper from Israel didn't tell you is whether or not as high as the protection is with natural infection, what's the durability compared to the durabilit…

[deleted]

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#307

Post by mattparcens »

wpietri wrote: post #276
throwaway894345 wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why? Probably because everyone and their uncle self-diagnosed a bad cold as COVID-19 and plenty more would lie about having natural immunity. Serology is a thing, as are records of positive test results. Also, in many cases, "proof of vaccination" includes a cell phone photo of the piece of paper they handed out when you got a vaccine, so as it stands, lying is pretty easy. > Vaccines are safe and available yet we…

> Serology is a thing, as are records of positive test results. Serology is a thing, sure. But two points: Getting a serum test rather than getting the vaccine is not going to be cheaper, easier, or better studied. We are not constrained on vaccine supply. So the practical advantage of allowing a totally different pathway is not obvious. Creating another pathway adds a lot of cognitive load and confusion. The bar bou…

Cognitive load does not justify imposing potentially involuntary medical treatments on people, particularly not onto people for whom the benefit is likely of very little marginal value.

The cognitive load could be built into the "vaccine card" anyway - I have a driver's license with a couple of extra checkboxes showing that I need corrective lenses and am authorized to drive a motorcycle, but most people need only be concerned that the card itself exists.

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#308

Post by bsder »

bitcurious wrote: post #190
advisedwang wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean for someone with natural immunity to get the vaccine is not going to reduce their immunity, and might boost it (or might not). So with fairly little downside, it makes sense to vaccinate them surely?

The downside is that if you already have a strong immune response you will have a much harsher reaction to the vaccine, basically four days out of commission. A reaction that’s rather comparable to breakthrough COVID.

I had Covid Original Flavor(tm). My case was considered "mild"--I "only" had a 103 fever for 2 1/2 weeks and my stamina was shot.

I also got vaccinated later. I had about a 24 hour reaction each time.

I wanted to make sure my body latched onto the spike protein. Immune systems latch onto all manner of things--sometimes relevant, sometimes not relevant, sometimes actively harmful.

This is an important point. Your body's reaction to natural Covid is far more unpredictable than to the vaccine. That may give you a more robust immune response--or that may give you something related to an autoimmune disorder.

As a comparison, I had a much worse reaction to Shingrix (the shingles vaccine) which hit me hard for about 4 days and I could barely move the arm that got the shot.

Your mileage may vary.

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#309

Post by mtinkerhess »

suifbwish wrote: post #263
JoshTriplett wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kids can also be carriers, and more spread among a partially resistant population means more mutation and more variants. Vaccines are in the process of being approved for all ages.

Vaccinated individuals can also carry it. It does not stop spread or contraction. These Vaccines are just supposed to reduce the extreme Symptoms

Vaccination greatly reduces transmission.

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#310

Post by outworlder »

beaner wrote: post #198
KingMachiavelli wrote: post #155

Why? Probably because everyone and their uncle self-diagnosed a bad cold as COVID-19 and plenty more would lie about having natural immunity. Still I don't understand the current approach to COVID in the US. Vaccines are safe and available yet we only just approved the use in children under 12. I have heard second hand many doctors are downplaying the importance of the vaccine for people under 18. On the other hand p…

>I have heard second hand many doctors are downplaying the importance of the vaccine for people under 18 The vaccine is not important for people under 18. Only 412 people age 17 or younger in the US have died from covid. [0] Teenage boys are six times more likely to suffer from heart problems from the vaccine than be hospitalised from Covid-19. [1] [0] https://data.cdc.gov/NCHS/Provisional-COVID-19-Deaths-by-Sex... […

> Only 412 people age 17 or younger in the US have died from covid.

How many avoided death because they had good health care?

One of my pet peeves about this pandemic is how death metrics keep being pushed around, as if it was not a big deal.

If this pandemic had hit before we had modern health care facilities, it would have been comparable to the great pandemics in history.

Besides, what happened to the children that didn't die? What sort of issues this could cause that may affect their development? We don't know, so we should play it safe.

> from the vaccine

There isn't just one vaccine. There are several. If one is potentially causing issues, use another.

Also, what about heart problems from Covid-19, even among those not hospitalized?

I can't read your paywalled article, but I've found another link. The 'heart problems' are myocarditis, which in most cases is mild and _resolves_ by itself.

https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseas...

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