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Stripe banned us for payment disputes but we never had a single dispute

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Re: Stripe banned us for payment disputes but we never had a single dispute

#251

Post by kureikain »

Not exact this but I had my account in some suspend state twice saying I was on Match list

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26320429 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21306225

In both case Edwin has helped me a lot to recover my access.

But it's a hear sinking moment and a few anxiety days because without Stripe I don't really know what option I had out there. Paypal is probaly what I will do next in those case.

PS: if you're here Edin, thanks so much for helping me solve those issue in the past. I finally be able to bootstrap by SaaS and profitable with it.

Re: Stripe banned us for payment disputes but we never had a single dispute

#252

Post by kureikain »

edwinwee wrote: post #95

Edwin from Stripe here. (OP, I've just sent you an email and we can talk more over there—I'm terribly sorry for the trouble.) I can't get into too many specifics about an individual business publicly, but unauthorized charges have high potential to be disputed in the near future—and while Stripe itself doesn't have a dispute threshold, the card networks require businesses to keep disputes low. Although that email in…

I just want to echo here that Edwin is superhelpful in the past. He proactively reach out and get the problem fix on my first post, and on the second time I reached out to him and again, he's superhelpful to help me resolve and regain access to Stripe.

Thanks a lo for what you did Edwin.

Vinh.

Re: Stripe banned us for payment disputes but we never had a single dispute

#253

Post by rualca »

mbreese wrote: post #189
invalidusernam3 wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We actually have an ongoing project to reduce the occurrence of these mistaken rejections by 90% by the end of this year. I think we’ll succeed at it. (They’re already down 50% since earlier this year.) More important than that is provide a way for people to get this revolved without having to make the front page of HN.

I know it’s not an ideal support mechanism, but I think this is one of the services HN provides to the community (informally). It can provide backdoor/informal channels through engineers and founders to some rather large companies. Especially when other avenues fail. But for the community, in this case, not only Stripe gets to learn about the issue, but we can all take something from this about automated systems and…

> I know it’s not an ideal support mechanism, but I think this is one of the services HN provides to the community (informally).

I would like to know where and why Stripe's customer support failed in this case. Or even if it failed at all. Those are the only relevant details.

It's immaterial to the discussion whether any other web forum was used as an alternative to Stripe's customer support. I'm sure HN didn't signed up to be any company's customer support channel, or if it's reasonable to get it involved in this ordeal.

If I have a problem with Stripe, I want my business to be dealt with Stripe directly, and in the process not get a web forum involved. I would hate to be in a position where escalating an issue so that it becomes a PR issue as well is seen as the first step in a problem-solving workflow.

Re: Stripe banned us for payment disputes but we never had a single dispute

#254

Post by fragmede »

danielmarkbruce wrote: post #221
hippich wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Stripe can easily lose very large amounts of money on individual accounts, and thousands of people try to do so every day. Not sure what case you refer to, but in our case someone was able to place multiple clearly (in my own hindsight) fraudulent orders on our woocommerce store. And it wasn't Stripe who lost on these chargebacks - it was us. The only way for Stripe to lose money in such scenario if seller (us) wou…

You figured out a way to do it (and people will set up businesses solely to do this) without having to think too hard. The creative things fraudsters will do is pretty wild. The time horizons they'll work on is also surprising - sometimes they move fast, sometimes they are quite patient and pose as an established business. And... sometimes they start out legit and then go to fraud when their business starts failing.…

And sometimes the scammers will buy legit, aged accounts, or take them over, so just because an account has been in good standing for years, with what looks like real human interactions with support, isn't enough of a signal to know that a scam isn't taking place from that account.

Re: Stripe banned us for payment disputes but we never had a single dispute

#255

Post by [deleted] »

penagwin wrote: post #209
TicklishTiger wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stripe can easily lose very large amounts of money on individual accounts How so? Is that because Stripe settles the payment on their end (they pay the merchant) before the payment to Stripe is settled? Can crypto solve this?

I don't think crypto would solve this particular issue. Stripe needs the ability to back out of moving money, so there's several settlement periods for different parts of the transaction and ways to appeal transfers retroactively. I suspect fraudster's are able to wait out this period without detection so they can cash out. If this is the case, then even time locking smart contracts won't help, as the fraudsters just…

[deleted]

Re: Stripe banned us for payment disputes but we never had a single dispute

#256

Post by atatatat »

pc wrote: post #187
oconnor663 wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One particularly frustrating aspect of fraud prevention is that fraudsters are better than the rest of us at getting human support staff to do what they want. They have way more practice, and they learn techniques that work from other fraudsters.

Right. It's a hard problem. That said, we think we can get better.

Reading the stories week in and week out, we think you can get better, too.

Hopefully that's a more diplomatic version of my (somewhat valid) sibling comment.

Re: Stripe banned us for payment disputes but we never had a single dispute

#257

Post by atatatat »

albrewer wrote: post #216
mikepechadotcom wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry to say that, but the fact that founders have to post on Hacker News to get necessary support from Stripe in case something like this happens, gives the impression that your reply is just reputation damage control, and nothing will actually change.

> and nothing will actually change If nothing changes, people will move away from Stripe on to something else. I'd say stuff like this is exactly how a business that wants to stay alive needs to react to swiftly and figure out the root cause for. The communication from the founder or representative needs to reflect the commitment to change and show the plan they intend to execute. The GP didn't do so well on the seco…

People "moved on" from PayPal, too.

You can't take back the entrenched market position gained, and the millions in dickswinging power now accessible.

Re: Stripe banned us for payment disputes but we never had a single dispute

#258

Post by mdoms »

pc wrote: post #108

(Stripe cofounder.) Ugh, apologies. Something very clearly went wrong here and we’re already investigating. Zooming out, a few broader comments: * Unlike most services, Stripe can easily lose very large amounts of money on individual accounts, and thousands of people try to do so every day. We are de facto running a big bug bounty/incentive program for evading our fraudulent user detection systems. * Errors like thes…

Every time. Every fucking time. And what if this post hadn't blown up on HN? This guy would just be screwed? If I want to use Stripe should my risk matrix include "fingers crossed HN picks up my story if I get shafted"?

Re: Stripe banned us for payment disputes but we never had a single dispute

#259

Post by atatatat »

rualca wrote: post #253
mbreese wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know it’s not an ideal support mechanism, but I think this is one of the services HN provides to the community (informally). It can provide backdoor/informal channels through engineers and founders to some rather large companies. Especially when other avenues fail. But for the community, in this case, not only Stripe gets to learn about the issue, but we can all take something from this about automated systems and…

> I know it’s not an ideal support mechanism, but I think this is one of the services HN provides to the community (informally). I would like to know where and why Stripe's customer support failed in this case. Or even if it failed at all. Those are the only relevant details. It's immaterial to the discussion whether any other web forum was used as an alternative to Stripe's customer support. I'm sure HN didn't signe…

The answer is usually:

Maintaining the magic abuse detector requires secrecy around the heuristics, which means not always giving the clearest error codes/any error codes to the user re: what's wrong with their account/transaction.

Re: Stripe banned us for payment disputes but we never had a single dispute

#260

Post by cantbeserious »

jbschirtzs wrote: post #131

I had the same thing happen to our church. I do not believe this is an "Accident". You can read the blow by blow at https://www.jbschirtzinger.com/post/stripe/ You can see very clearly that I also thought this was an automated issue, but turned out not to be.

> What I can tell you, unequivocally, as that these are the End of Days and whatever it is you are here doing it is more consistent with a discriminatory policy of something like the Anti-Christ than anything actually just.

This might be the craziest thing I've ever seen in a support email.

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