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Steve Wozniak announces private space company to clean up space debris in orbit

independent.co.uk

101–110 of 264 posts

Re: Steve Wozniak announces private space company to clean up space debris in orbit

#101
post #18

So here's a potential business model for this: salvage rights. When ships sink, the owner generally still retains ownership of any property. Sometimes the location of the wreck is known. Sometimes it needs to be found. It can cost a lot of money to find a wreck and recover any property. So salvage rights are a principle of maritime law such that whoever does this is entitled to a reward commensurate with the value of…

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Re: Steve Wozniak announces private space company to clean up space debris in orbit

#102
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the speeds those things whiz by, what sort of materials are there that can withstand impacts and not create more debris? Or do they try to do it via relative speeds and say let them hit the "paddle" at 50mph? And in that case, might it not be more effective to have hunting "nets" to collect the objects?

if you are moving with the almost the same speed and in the same direction as the debris, then there is a very small impact.

Everything in an orbit moves at exactly the same speed.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kepler's_laws_of_planetary_m...

You can only collide with an orbiting object if one of you is changing orbits.

It's very difficult to force to objects to meet in orbit with nearly the same velocity; it requires complex active maneuvering.

Re: Steve Wozniak announces private space company to clean up space debris in orbit

#104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that will change very quickly when we have a collision in space. I imagine SpaceX, for instance, would be pretty interested in cleaning up space junk if two of their LEO satellites collide.

the point of SpaceX putting things into LEO (which we should really call SLEO or something, because it's super-low) is that the orbits are self-clearing on a reasonable timescale, months or single-digit years. GEO is likewise not a problem because things out there are really far apart and they generally don't cross each other's orbits. MEO (where GNSS services live) is the real danger. Thankfully there aren't a ton o…

How much money would SpaceX lose per day in that event? I imagine the thread of a cascading set of collisions becomes more likely after the first one, also. I think SpaceX would be very interested in clearing debris as soon as possible in the event of a collision. Months or single-digit years likely would cost SpaceX many billions.

Re: Steve Wozniak announces private space company to clean up space debris in orbit

#106
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Space debris is exponential. It only takes one piece getting a good hit on a satellite to create thousands more.

> one piece getting a good hit on a satellite to create thousands more. ... and then what happens? Most of those pieces retain their location and momentum. "Blowing up a satellite" converts it into a cloud of smaller particles in the same orbit, possibly with some random spray, but this is not quite like billiard balls without friction.

I don't think that's true.

Initially the particles are in roughly similar orbits to the two bodies that initially collided, but not precisely the same. Over time (exactly like billard balls without friction), those minor divergences mean they cover very wide areas.

Look up the "Gabbard diagram", which is a great way of depicting the outcome of a collision. There's a spray of different orbits, with some properties that resemble the original objects, but diverging significantly from them.

Edit: Here's an AMAZING 3d animated Gabbard diagram, that shows not only the altitude and period, but also the right ascension of each object. You can see the debris from the Fengyun booster sweeping around the whole planet, crossing the orbits of other objects: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePuvJDVNJd0

Even if they did stay in the same orbit, a thousand objects in the same orbit presents a thousand times more collision risk than one object in orbit. But because the collision changes the momentum of all the objects involved, it's much worse than that -- the results end up all over, and some of them are too small to track but still large enough to do damage. Those are the ones you really have to worrry about.

Re: Steve Wozniak announces private space company to clean up space debris in orbit

#107
post #18

So here's a potential business model for this: salvage rights. When ships sink, the owner generally still retains ownership of any property. Sometimes the location of the wreck is known. Sometimes it needs to be found. It can cost a lot of money to find a wreck and recover any property. So salvage rights are a principle of maritime law such that whoever does this is entitled to a reward commensurate with the value of…

Given enough debris at different orbital heights, maybe Woz company can collect it at one location and use it as a launch platform, using the debris as the reaction-mass, then they can use solar power as the energy source to launch to higher orbits, rather than ejecting rocketfuel for thrust. Does this seem feasible? Given certain rocket trajectories, the debris could be made to fall back to earth, solving 2 problems at once - escape velocity energy needs as well as excessive space debris.

*Using space debris as railgun payload, but the railgun (rocket ship) is what you want to accelerate.

Re: Steve Wozniak announces private space company to clean up space debris in orbit

#108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So the solution is to eject our atmosphere into space in order to eliminate space junk? Space junk constantly increases over time, so more and more pulses are required to clear out the junk, so more and more of our atmosphere is ejected into space for this purpose. There is absolutely no way that this could go wrong.

Bad news for you: The moon steals tons of our atmosphere every year ... Far more gets lost past that.

Bad news for all of us, to be frank.

Re: Steve Wozniak announces private space company to clean up space debris in orbit

#110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How valuable are geostationary slots these days? LEO swarms have eaten some of the GEO lunch. What are the niches where LEO swarms aren't a workable replacement?

Communications over a specific geographic region and budget for only one bird and/or only one launch. That's pretty much most of the world's nations' telecommunication needs. SpaceX has put up at least half a dozen satellites for small nations meeting these very common requirements.

Ah, that makes sense: if sovereignty is a driving requirement you can't just piggyback on the big LEO swarm deployments, but a single geostationary satellite covers exactly the territory that you care about. Now I understand. Thanks.
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