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Steve Wozniak announces private space company to clean up space debris in orbit

independent.co.uk

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Re: Steve Wozniak announces private space company to clean up space debris in orbit

#91
I always had this question, though maybe there's a simple answer why nobody is doing this.

Why it's not mandatory to have some smallish engine attached, which at the end of satellite's life would lower the orbit enough until atmosphere picks it up and it will slow down significantly on it's own and burn up?

Is it because most satellites will not fully burn and actually hit the ground, i.e. it's liability?

Is it because of too great of a risk of crossing and colliding with a satellite in another orbit, i.e. liability again?

Is it because "attaching smallish engine" which will fire at satellite's end life is actually really hard thing to do?

Something else?

Re: Steve Wozniak announces private space company to clean up space debris in orbit

#92

I'm very skeptical of the technical challenges associated with this problem (business model and financing aside). The amount of delta-v required to perform maneuvers to repeatedly "dock" with different pieces of space junk, and then again to de-orbit is very high. You MIGHT be able to de-orbit on the order of magnitude of ~10 pieces of low-earth orbit debris per mission. Maybe. If you're really good. And low-earth or…

3) Every space agency funds the space dedebree-ing because they will be able to send up more to space again.

I'm no expert, but is that really a consideration for modern launches? I'm not aware of any space agency that is currently limited in what they can do by orbital debris. Maybe it changes the launch windows, or they adjust an orbit by a few km. But are missions actually being canceled such that they would fund someone to make those missions possible again?

Re: Steve Wozniak announces private space company to clean up space debris in orbit

#93
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the speeds those things whiz by, what sort of materials are there that can withstand impacts and not create more debris? Or do they try to do it via relative speeds and say let them hit the "paddle" at 50mph? And in that case, might it not be more effective to have hunting "nets" to collect the objects?

if you are moving with the almost the same speed and in the same direction as the debris, then there is a very small impact.

I imagine orbital velocities of debris is all over the place. It sound like you would need a magic source of thrust for all that delta-v to match orbits and whatnot.

Re: Steve Wozniak announces private space company to clean up space debris in orbit

#94
post #91

I always had this question, though maybe there's a simple answer why nobody is doing this. Why it's not mandatory to have some smallish engine attached, which at the end of satellite's life would lower the orbit enough until atmosphere picks it up and it will slow down significantly on it's own and burn up? Is it because most satellites will not fully burn and actually hit the ground, i.e. it's liability? Is it becau…

Well there are other reasons for debris besides just satellites going out of commission. For example in 2007 China deliberately blew up the Fenyun-1C satellite for some kind of research purpose accounting for probably thousands of current pieces of debris up there.

Re: Steve Wozniak announces private space company to clean up space debris in orbit

#95
post #91

I always had this question, though maybe there's a simple answer why nobody is doing this. Why it's not mandatory to have some smallish engine attached, which at the end of satellite's life would lower the orbit enough until atmosphere picks it up and it will slow down significantly on it's own and burn up? Is it because most satellites will not fully burn and actually hit the ground, i.e. it's liability? Is it becau…

Well there are other reasons for debris besides just satellites going out of commission. For example in 2007 China deliberately blew up the Fenyun-1C satellite for some kind of research purpose accounting for probably thousands of current pieces of debris up there.

“Research” - they were testing their orbital targeting capabilities.

Re: Steve Wozniak announces private space company to clean up space debris in orbit

#96
post #91

I always had this question, though maybe there's a simple answer why nobody is doing this. Why it's not mandatory to have some smallish engine attached, which at the end of satellite's life would lower the orbit enough until atmosphere picks it up and it will slow down significantly on it's own and burn up? Is it because most satellites will not fully burn and actually hit the ground, i.e. it's liability? Is it becau…

They do.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graveyard_orbit

Re: Steve Wozniak announces private space company to clean up space debris in orbit

#97
post #91

I always had this question, though maybe there's a simple answer why nobody is doing this. Why it's not mandatory to have some smallish engine attached, which at the end of satellite's life would lower the orbit enough until atmosphere picks it up and it will slow down significantly on it's own and burn up? Is it because most satellites will not fully burn and actually hit the ground, i.e. it's liability? Is it becau…

It depends on the orbit.

The satellites we put in orbit will naturally have orbits which will decay in a matter of days to hundreds of millions of years. End of life is indeed a consideration for launch approval and many satellites do accelerate their decay with onboard thrust.

Some satellites can’t, would require too much thrust to get back to earth. Some push in to higher orbits to get out of the way for replacement satellites.

Some satellites break in orbit and can’t be controlled.

Re: Steve Wozniak announces private space company to clean up space debris in orbit

#98
post #91

I always had this question, though maybe there's a simple answer why nobody is doing this. Why it's not mandatory to have some smallish engine attached, which at the end of satellite's life would lower the orbit enough until atmosphere picks it up and it will slow down significantly on it's own and burn up? Is it because most satellites will not fully burn and actually hit the ground, i.e. it's liability? Is it becau…

The engine is not the problem. It's the fuel. Large orbit changes take a lot. Lowering orbit is not easier than raising orbit, it takes the same delta-v.

IMO what should happen is we should ban putting satellites in high orbits. Satellites in low orbit decay naturally within a few years due to atmospheric drag. Satellites in high orbit will stay there essentially forever. More importantly, any collision in high orbit creates a permanent debris cloud which will spread over time and pollute orbit forever, being essentially impossible to clean up even with sci-fi technology. A collision in low orbit creates a similar debris cloud but it will be naturally cleaned up in a few years or less.

Putting satellites in high orbits made sense back when it was incredibly expensive to launch each satellite, because satellites last longer in high orbit and you don't need as many to cover an area. Also, stationary satellite dishes only work with geostationary satellites, and geostationary orbit is a very high orbit. But today we can use phased arrays to communicate with moving satellites without physically moving a dish, and SpaceX is about to drop launch prices through the floor with Starship, making it feasible to launch enough satellites to cover the Earth even in low orbit and replace them frequently. So to me, the space debris pollution risk of high orbit satellites can no longer be justified.

Re: Steve Wozniak announces private space company to clean up space debris in orbit

#99
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

if you are moving with the almost the same speed and in the same direction as the debris, then there is a very small impact.

I imagine orbital velocities of debris is all over the place. It sound like you would need a magic source of thrust for all that delta-v to match orbits and whatnot.

they might try out solar powered ion engines. Deep space one is powered by an engine of this type, see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_electric_propulsion

Re: Steve Wozniak announces private space company to clean up space debris in orbit

#100
post #5

It will be interesting to see how they are planning to earn money. The only ones willing to expend resources on space cleanup right now seem to be ESA (the European Space Agency).

I think that will change very quickly when we have a collision in space. I imagine SpaceX, for instance, would be pretty interested in cleaning up space junk if two of their LEO satellites collide.

the point of SpaceX putting things into LEO (which we should really call SLEO or something, because it's super-low) is that the orbits are self-clearing on a reasonable timescale, months or single-digit years.

GEO is likewise not a problem because things out there are really far apart and they generally don't cross each other's orbits.

MEO (where GNSS services live) is the real danger. Thankfully there aren't a ton of objects there, but deorbiting the dead ones should be a very high priority on anyone's list.

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