Facebook knows Instagram is toxic for teen girls, company documents show • Hacker News Board

Re: Facebook knows Instagram is toxic for teen girls, company documents show

#121

Post by vladvasiliu » Tue, Sep 14, 2021, 2:15 PM UTC

andreime wrote: post #106

blakesterz wrote: post #2

https://archive.is/egPlc “The research that we’ve seen is that using social apps to connect with other people can have positive mental-health benefits,” CEO Mark Zuckerberg said at a congressional hearing... “We make body image issues worse for one in three teen girls,” said one slide from 2019, summarizing research about teen girls who experience the issues. “Teens blame Instagram for increases in the rate of anxiet…

I'm not defending Facebook and I just had some thoughts reading the quotes and am curious what you think of them. 1. I remember that while growing up fashion magazines, actors/actresses and I want to say peer pressure (but am fearful its incorrect) were a big source of body image issues. 2. Maybe it's a side effect of our society or "normal" to have security issues while growing up. We've been having good childhoods…

> 1. I remember that while growing up fashion magazines, actors/actresses and I want to say peer pressure (but am fearful its incorrect) were a big source of body image issues.

I remember reading somewhere, can't remember where, something that addressed this point.

Broadly speaking, the idea was that "people in magazines" weren't perceived as "peers", so you wouldn't compare yourself to them in the same way as you'd compare with a classmate, or some other "regular person", "just like yourself".

Re: Facebook knows Instagram is toxic for teen girls, company documents show

#122

Post by CivBase » Tue, Sep 14, 2021, 2:15 PM UTC

aspaviento wrote: post #94

tw04 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's their fault. An individual girl in 1995 who was concerned with her looks had at most a couple dozen people in her life to judge her. In 2021 it's hundreds of millions, and a large portion are more than happy to spout things they would NEVER say in real life. Does society value beauty? Sure. Do models set "unrealistic expectations"? Sure. Are some high school girls assholes to other girls? Absolutely. But once up…

> An individual girl in 1995 who was concerned with her looks had at most a couple dozen people in her life to judge her An individual girl in 1995 had enough shows on TV and enough magazines to tell her she is not looking good.

Yeah, but people have a certain level of disconnect with the models, athletes, actors, and superstars you see on TV and in magazines. Facebook brings that to the next level by encouraging that sort of content from people who you can actually relate to and feeds it to you around the clock. IG is especially bad about this.

And that's just some of the content. The algorithm is also just as happy to feed you a continuous stream of outraging, extremist "punditry", manufactured drama, fake "crafting" videos, conspiracies, and paranoid, depressing "news" - anything to keep you engaged.

Re: Facebook knows Instagram is toxic for teen girls, company documents show

#123

Post by arvinsim » Tue, Sep 14, 2021, 2:16 PM UTC

agent008t wrote: post #51

ravenstine wrote: post #11

When does a vice of society get created and the creator not know of its harmful effects? Rarely, it seems. In actuality, though, as much as I think it's obvious that Instagram was designed specifically for the mindset of teens (and incidentally the countless with Peter Pan syndrome), it's too easy for us to simply blame Facebook. We are also responsible for raising our children to a certain level of emotional maturit…

I guess the fact that every generation seems to have moral panics about new technology (radio, tv, video games, internet), and every generation seems to complain about the decline of pop culture, led many reasonable people to adopt the heuristic that this is all just the talk of old curmudgeons, and new fads are no worse than old fads. But what if facebook, instagram, youtube etc. are actually harmful? What if modern…

I think the big difference is that society transformed a lot faster compared to previous ages that most people were not prepared to adapt.

Re: Facebook knows Instagram is toxic for teen girls, company documents show

#124

Post by tgv » Tue, Sep 14, 2021, 2:16 PM UTC

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #102

tgv wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never really believed it was Hollywood or the fashion industry that created it. People know who's attractive in their circle. You compete with them. The magazines and ads have upped the ante, and facebook turned it into an addiction, but the mechanism was there all along, I think.

The mechanism are also there to prefer sugar and fat to healthier food, to become addicted to nicotine and opiates, and to do many other self-harming things. That doesn't mean giant corporations should allowed to exploit these mechanisms for profit.

Of course. If anything, it gives them a greater responsibility (and accountability), because it's such an easy trap.

Re: Facebook knows Instagram is toxic for teen girls, company documents show

#125

Post by acdha » Tue, Sep 14, 2021, 2:16 PM UTC

joelbluminator wrote: post #29

tw04 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's their fault. An individual girl in 1995 who was concerned with her looks had at most a couple dozen people in her life to judge her. In 2021 it's hundreds of millions, and a large portion are more than happy to spout things they would NEVER say in real life. Does society value beauty? Sure. Do models set "unrealistic expectations"? Sure. Are some high school girls assholes to other girls? Absolutely. But once up…

> and a large portion are more than happy to spout things they would NEVER say in real life This is pretty much an internet problem, not a Facebook problem. The things people say to each other on forums or Twitter or Facebook, especially when anonymous (but not always), are quite often horrendous.

This is true but the companies choose how to build and operate these spaces, which includes things like moderation and what they promote. Part of what makes Facebook important here is that they’ve put so much effort into taking over people’s socialization everywhere with an emphasis on being where your friends and family are. The more toxic parts of the Internet used to be different places you had to seek out.

Given how profitable that’s been it seems reasonable to expect them to be involved in fixing it.

Re: Facebook knows Instagram is toxic for teen girls, company documents show

#126

Post by GnarfGnarf » Tue, Sep 14, 2021, 2:18 PM UTC

tw04 wrote: post #50

nodejs_rulez_1 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but on flipside said girl now can and fully expects to be courted by best boys well outside of 1995 logistic reach.

>Yes, but on flipside said girl now can and fully expects to be courted by best boys well outside of 1995 logistic reach. I honestly can't tell if you're joking or not, but study after study has shown that dating was far more mentally healthy in 1995 than it is today. Online dating falls into almost the exact same category of causing anxiety and making it more difficult for younger generations to form meaningful rela…

...far more...

Re: Facebook knows Instagram is toxic for teen girls, company documents show

#127

Post by everdrive » Tue, Sep 14, 2021, 2:18 PM UTC

spockz wrote: post #5

blakesterz wrote: post #2

https://archive.is/egPlc “The research that we’ve seen is that using social apps to connect with other people can have positive mental-health benefits,” CEO Mark Zuckerberg said at a congressional hearing... “We make body image issues worse for one in three teen girls,” said one slide from 2019, summarizing research about teen girls who experience the issues. “Teens blame Instagram for increases in the rate of anxiet…

This shows how a statement can be factually true and completely disingenuous at the same time. Yes 1/3 are effected badly but we just say that it can have positive effects. Just omitting the fact that it often has a detrimental effect…

It sounds like this is part of the point you're making, but this sort of statement should only be considered a lie. Some philosophers might correctly call this "bullshit," however colloquially it's the same as a lie: it intends to deceive.

Re: Facebook knows Instagram is toxic for teen girls, company documents show

#128

Post by WhompingWindows » Tue, Sep 14, 2021, 2:18 PM UTC

andreime wrote: post #106

blakesterz wrote: post #2

https://archive.is/egPlc “The research that we’ve seen is that using social apps to connect with other people can have positive mental-health benefits,” CEO Mark Zuckerberg said at a congressional hearing... “We make body image issues worse for one in three teen girls,” said one slide from 2019, summarizing research about teen girls who experience the issues. “Teens blame Instagram for increases in the rate of anxiet…

I'm not defending Facebook and I just had some thoughts reading the quotes and am curious what you think of them. 1. I remember that while growing up fashion magazines, actors/actresses and I want to say peer pressure (but am fearful its incorrect) were a big source of body image issues. 2. Maybe it's a side effect of our society or "normal" to have security issues while growing up. We've been having good childhoods…

Normal means that there is a bell-curve distribution of how insecure individuals would be; you'll see both more and less self-confident individuals. However, if you barrage the populace with photoshopped, top 1% in beauty, frankly unhealthy bodies, that distribution is going to move to the "right" towards more insecurity. I'd wager anyone susceptible to insecurity would experience a much greater level, than in a poor farming town where young people see almost no sexualized supermodels or celebrities to compare themselves to.

For example, take some 13 year old girl, probably a poor farmer, from Ireland in 1800. She will have seen almost no examples of the female body except her own, her peers rarely, and her familial elders. Then plop her down into today's world, and she'll definitely be barraged by all the most ridiculous images of flat stomachs, huge anatomical parts and tiny anatomical parts, immaculately photoshopped forms: she'll be made to feel less than them.

Re: Facebook knows Instagram is toxic for teen girls, company documents show

#129

Post by kodah » Tue, Sep 14, 2021, 2:20 PM UTC

tw04 wrote: post #50

nodejs_rulez_1 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but on flipside said girl now can and fully expects to be courted by best boys well outside of 1995 logistic reach.

>Yes, but on flipside said girl now can and fully expects to be courted by best boys well outside of 1995 logistic reach. I honestly can't tell if you're joking or not, but study after study has shown that dating was far more mentally healthy in 1995 than it is today. Online dating falls into almost the exact same category of causing anxiety and making it more difficult for younger generations to form meaningful rela…

I think GP is conflating an issue with online dating and the psychology of beauty. Basically, men in online dating on average get very low numbers of matches while women on average get a ton. It's a numbers game, the apps know it, and that's why they have upgrades to buy visibility etc...

It's a genuine problem, in that it is fully exploitative of men, but not related to this imo.

Re: Facebook knows Instagram is toxic for teen girls, company documents show

#130

Post by pulse7 » Tue, Sep 14, 2021, 2:21 PM UTC

spockz wrote: post #5

blakesterz wrote: post #2

https://archive.is/egPlc “The research that we’ve seen is that using social apps to connect with other people can have positive mental-health benefits,” CEO Mark Zuckerberg said at a congressional hearing... “We make body image issues worse for one in three teen girls,” said one slide from 2019, summarizing research about teen girls who experience the issues. “Teens blame Instagram for increases in the rate of anxiet…

This shows how a statement can be factually true and completely disingenuous at the same time. Yes 1/3 are effected badly but we just say that it can have positive effects. Just omitting the fact that it often has a detrimental effect…

They are "bending the truth" which is per definition "to say something that is not true or that misleads people but that is usually not regarded as a serious or harmful lie"...