Facebook knows Instagram is toxic for teen girls, company documents show • Hacker News Board

Re: Facebook knows Instagram is toxic for teen girls, company documents show

#41

Post by micromacrofoot » Tue, Sep 14, 2021, 1:32 PM UTC

joelbluminator wrote: post #14

Is it Facebook / Instagram's fault or us as a culture? As a culture we adore beauty, wealth, power...Facebook seems to be just a platform where our natural desires can have a play. Facebook hasn't created this impossible beauty ideal, it was created long long ago by Hollywood and the fashion industry. Facebook just makes it super easy for people to become obsessed with something by "connecting" with it. It used to be…

If you come home from work and your neighbor tells you that you accidentally ran over a stray cat as you left in the morning... do you just move on with your day and blame the cat... or do you start paying a little more attention so it doesn't happen again?

The "fault" or "original sin" if you will, may lie with society, but Instagram and Facebook are capable of recognizing how their impact plays into that. At this point we know that they know. To be aware and not attempt to change their behavior is squarely unethical.

Re: Facebook knows Instagram is toxic for teen girls, company documents show

#42

Post by mnsc » Tue, Sep 14, 2021, 1:32 PM UTC

joelbluminator wrote: post #19

sasaf5 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Once there are algorithms ranking the posts, they are meddling with the culture.

I kinda agree maybe this can be better regulated but if someone decides to follow Beyonce or Lady Gaga (sorry I'm not really up to date with pop stars) or some supermodel, how are you gonna prevent that? As for algorithm ranking, I suppose 40 years ago it was a "human algorithm" reaching the conclusion that you better have hot chicks drinking coke on commercials, how is that different?

I'm just going to assume you are not a teen girl. And I'm certainly not one so we can just pull things out of our asses. But I don't think that the issue is the pop star or super model any more. It's the influencers and the idea that "anyone" can be top dog now. This means that you have young regular girls following other young "regular" girls. And if you do what they do, use the same products, be as charismatic then you too can be an influencer. Maybe not a global one but at your school. So suddenly you have young girls that "expose" themselves publically for their 62 followers and pretending to be a influencer. Which makes you a very large target for bullying and "harsh truths" that will end your "influencer career" and at the same time that sliver of self esteem that a teenager normally has. And this is 100% caused by having a platform that is "democratic" and allows everyone to "compete for likes on equal terms".

Re: Facebook knows Instagram is toxic for teen girls, company documents show

#43

Post by foobarian » Tue, Sep 14, 2021, 1:32 PM UTC

nodejs_rulez_1 wrote: post #31

tw04 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's their fault. An individual girl in 1995 who was concerned with her looks had at most a couple dozen people in her life to judge her. In 2021 it's hundreds of millions, and a large portion are more than happy to spout things they would NEVER say in real life. Does society value beauty? Sure. Do models set "unrealistic expectations"? Sure. Are some high school girls assholes to other girls? Absolutely. But once up…

Yes, but on flipside said girl now can and fully expects to be courted by best boys well outside of 1995 logistic reach.

Wouldn't it be great if we could use the power of technology to then have one but not the other?

Re: Facebook knows Instagram is toxic for teen girls, company documents show

#44

Post by yunohn » Tue, Sep 14, 2021, 1:33 PM UTC

joelbluminator wrote: post #19

sasaf5 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Once there are algorithms ranking the posts, they are meddling with the culture.

I kinda agree maybe this can be better regulated but if someone decides to follow Beyonce or Lady Gaga (sorry I'm not really up to date with pop stars) or some supermodel, how are you gonna prevent that? As for algorithm ranking, I suppose 40 years ago it was a "human algorithm" reaching the conclusion that you better have hot chicks drinking coke on commercials, how is that different?

The difference is that Instagram/etc inundate you with nonstop algorithmically “related” posts from every supermodel, not just the ones you chose to follow.

Re: Facebook knows Instagram is toxic for teen girls, company documents show

#45

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Sep 14, 2021, 1:34 PM UTC

tristor wrote: post #12

decremental wrote: post #3

There should be a term for things we know on an instinctive level that we can use to guide our decision making.

There is, it's called intuition. Unfortunately the new mantra in big tech is "data driven decision making", which is supposed to mean that you do research and collect data prior to making decisions, not that you A/B test everything to a local maxima ignoring intuition and the holistic bigger picture, but companies have taken it to mean the former. Intuition is the basis of taste-making and aesthetic and is one of the…

[deleted]

Re: Facebook knows Instagram is toxic for teen girls, company documents show

#46

Post by clipradiowallet » Tue, Sep 14, 2021, 1:34 PM UTC

When I was a kid, my parents worked really hard to teach my how and why to avoid things that would harm me. This ranged from discouraging behaviors like running with scissors or drinking and driving, to substances like tobacco or heroin. Social media did not exist when I was a child, or I'm certain it would have been among those behaviors taught to me as harmful, addictive, and easy to screw yourself up by being involved with.

Of course...it would have been much harder for me to absorb those life lessons if my parents did those things they told me were harmful. If dad got loaded and drove around, or if mom shot up smack, it would have compromised me avoiding those things by following their example. It's tough to tell your kid to avoid social media when they watch their parent mindlessly entranced by it. Do the right thing there, remind your children that what 'Joe Influencer' or 'Jane Fashionista' thinks doesn't fucking matter. There are attention seeking idiots all around us, but they exist in spectacular high volume on social media.

tldr; parent your children to avoid social media, there is limited upside and infinite downside. This may mean not scrolling meme's all night on your phone while your kid does their homework - but you can do it.

Re: Facebook knows Instagram is toxic for teen girls, company documents show

#47

Post by joelbluminator » Tue, Sep 14, 2021, 1:34 PM UTC

ccn0p wrote: post #36

joelbluminator wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and a large portion are more than happy to spout things they would NEVER say in real life This is pretty much an internet problem, not a Facebook problem. The things people say to each other on forums or Twitter or Facebook, especially when anonymous (but not always), are quite often horrendous.

True, and the cat can't be put back in the bag, so it's up to the collective "us", who build the Internet, to rediscover our moral imperative to fix what's broken... and Facebook is a huge chunk of this brokenness.

I personally deleted my account but what is it about Facebook that is worse than say Twitter (also deleted) ? Twitter was a big bag of toxicity. Not saying it wasn't interested, tons of interesting people to follow; but the discussions were often rude, racist and hateful. And it poses the same problem of teens following supermodels and what not. What I'm saying is this is about social media in general, not about Facebook which just happens to be the (currently) number 1 platform.

Re: Facebook knows Instagram is toxic for teen girls, company documents show

#48

Post by mym1990 » Tue, Sep 14, 2021, 1:35 PM UTC

johnwheeler wrote: post #10

bob_theslob646 wrote: post #9

The daily usage numbers by these teens are fairly remarkable. Does any major government fund public research into social media addiction in the youth?

Where have you been for the last 10 years? And it’s not just youth. It’s adults too.

I think the number for teens/tweens is much higher compared to adults, and that is what they are getting at. Adults can(presumably) make their own decisions. Younger brains will likely have difficulty in finding the steps to break out of the loop.

Re: Facebook knows Instagram is toxic for teen girls, company documents show

#49

Post by sasaf5 » Tue, Sep 14, 2021, 1:35 PM UTC

joelbluminator wrote: post #19

sasaf5 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Once there are algorithms ranking the posts, they are meddling with the culture.

I kinda agree maybe this can be better regulated but if someone decides to follow Beyonce or Lady Gaga (sorry I'm not really up to date with pop stars) or some supermodel, how are you gonna prevent that? As for algorithm ranking, I suppose 40 years ago it was a "human algorithm" reaching the conclusion that you better have hot chicks drinking coke on commercials, how is that different?

Following a or b is not the problem. Ranking is. As you mentioned, it was already a problem in the times of simple broadcasting, it became an even bigger problem now. Our massive servers will go brrrrr serving algorithms all over the world much faster than we can dream about interveening. The Rohingya crisis stands as a terrifying example.

Re: Facebook knows Instagram is toxic for teen girls, company documents show

#50

Post by tw04 » Tue, Sep 14, 2021, 1:35 PM UTC

nodejs_rulez_1 wrote: post #31

tw04 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's their fault. An individual girl in 1995 who was concerned with her looks had at most a couple dozen people in her life to judge her. In 2021 it's hundreds of millions, and a large portion are more than happy to spout things they would NEVER say in real life. Does society value beauty? Sure. Do models set "unrealistic expectations"? Sure. Are some high school girls assholes to other girls? Absolutely. But once up…

Yes, but on flipside said girl now can and fully expects to be courted by best boys well outside of 1995 logistic reach.

>Yes, but on flipside said girl now can and fully expects to be courted by best boys well outside of 1995 logistic reach.

I honestly can't tell if you're joking or not, but study after study has shown that dating was far more mentally healthy in 1995 than it is today. Online dating falls into almost the exact same category of causing anxiety and making it more difficult for younger generations to form meaningful relationships - just like instagram and facebook.