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Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

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Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#91

Post by paulmd »

LurkingPenguin wrote: post #68
blagie wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, I'm not flying to Vietnam tomorrow, so I'm not claiming I personally need a booster shot. However: - Vietnam is an epicenter right now, so my odds of catching COVID would be high. - They are well beyond hospital capacity, so if I do have a serious case, it's uncertain I'll receive quality care (and if I do, I'm taking a bed from someone else) We don't have full data, so the right way to think about this is with…

> We do have multiple studies about how immunity wanes over time from vaccination. Those provide better ground-truth data than theoretical arguments. I believe the studies you're referring to are those that address efficacy against symptomatic infection, not severe illness. Unless you're in a high-risk group because of age or comorbidities, with two doses of an mRNA vaccine within the past 8 months, to my knowledge a…

This is my clear (amateur) conclusion as well. The exposure amount and dose varies, exposure in high-density hot zones is high risk and the cumulative dose does seem to pose some additional risk, as does the risk that you may not be able to receive a high level of clinical care in various areas.

I'm not necessarily talking about adventures in southeast asia there either.

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#92

Post by refurb »

ctrlp wrote: post #59
hef19898 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But developing countries pay less, so BionTech and Pfizer will have less profits. As cool as having a company like Biontech, run by immigrants, founded in Germany they always rubbed me the wrong way in terms of PR and business conduct since the start of the pandemic. With huge support from German media and politics. The continued dissing of Astrazeneca is just one example, the push for booster shots is another.

It's fascinating how the vaccine makers have come out of this smelling like roses to so many and I wonder how long it will last. Not long ago, the NYT could write "the turpitude of the pharmaceutical industry is so commonplace that it has become part of the cultural wallpaper.” [0] Now we all seem very happy to accept their products and believe their claims. Truly wonderful to behold. I can recall books and arguments…

Well, I'm assuming people were more critical before covid because it's easy to thrown stones when there isn't an epidemic going on a millions dying?

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#93

Post by _red »

kongin wrote: post #56
newsbinator wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The compensation is not missing weeks or years due to Covid... or in rarer cases, you know, dying.

But think of the opportunity cost! If you're under 40 and you spread the virus to your over 50 boss she has at least an order of magnitude more chance of dying than you. You could then move up the corporate ladder with her departure.

How about the reverse!

If you're a 8 year old male, you get the shot and die of myocarditis, but the 82 yr old overweight cancer patient gets an extra 4 months!!! YAY!

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#94

Post by lucideer »

blagie wrote: post #44
LurkingPenguin wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you "absolutely" need a booster shot? Are you immunocompromised? How do you know what your level of protection currently is? Even if you did a test to look at your antibody titers, antibody titers aren't the end all and be all of immunity (think T-cells).

Well, I'm not flying to Vietnam tomorrow, so I'm not claiming I personally need a booster shot. However: - Vietnam is an epicenter right now, so my odds of catching COVID would be high. - They are well beyond hospital capacity, so if I do have a serious case, it's uncertain I'll receive quality care (and if I do, I'm taking a bed from someone else) We don't have full data, so the right way to think about this is with…

> Vietnam is an epicenter right now, so my odds of catching COVID would be high.

ho chi minh is an "epicenter" according to Vietnamese authorities (who have always taken a much stricter, "zero-covid-adjacent" approach to managing covid). While there is always risk, the case-rate is roughly the same as Germany & France (neither of which are in lockdown) & much lower than other western states like the US & UK. The entire country is in lockdown because this is an all-time high by Vietnamese standards (Vietnam have fared similarly to NZ in terms of case-rates before now), despite case-rate in e.g. Ha Noi being low, further mitigating risk factors.

So no I don't think the odds of catching it would be significantly higher than wherever you currently reside, unless your humanitarian work is specifically treating covid patients, in which case of course you should get a booster but the destination country is completely irrelevant.

Points about hospital capacity are obviously still relevant, but that's not necessarily going to be impacted by boosters as much as vaccination in general: full vaccination rate in Vietnam is only ~5% due to supply issues that are only exacerbated by over-subscription to boosters in western states.

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#95

Post by epmaybe »

I think this reporting is dancing around the issue, that the vaccine supply is most concentrated in countries that have essentially reached their maximum vaccination percentage. By not providing access to those developing or smaller countries, larger countries are shooting themselves in the proverbial global foot. I don’t think countries like the US and Canada aren’t trying to do that, I just think these experts would like more of a conscious effort.

I also think this advice feels like a slap to healthcare workers like myself who desperately want to continue taking care of patients as safely as possible. When your coworkers can spread virus more easily due to less immunity, being unvaccinated, etc, it would be more reassuring to continue to have stronger immunity to continue seeing patients. I don’t have the luxury of waiting for a patient to test negative before seeing them in the emergency room or clinic.

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#96

Post by thrownaway561 »

ugh... can we please just get a medical expert to publish a report directly rather than having the media report it? I am so tried of the way the media twists things to suit their point of view or sensationalize things. I just want direct information... is that too hard to ask for?

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#97

Post by mensetmanusman »

It is arguably unethical to provide a rich person a third or fourth shot before helping the poor with their first shot.

(it is also counterproductive, since the rich would benefit if the poor were immune. This applies to the current debate around natural immunity and mandates.)

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#98

Post by KoftaBob »

thrownaway561 wrote: post #96

ugh... can we please just get a medical expert to publish a report directly rather than having the media report it? I am so tried of the way the media twists things to suit their point of view or sensationalize things. I just want direct information... is that too hard to ask for?

This is the direct link to the medical journal that this article is reporting on: https://www.thelancet.com/pb-assets/Lancet/pdfs/S01406736210...

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#99

Post by ctrlp »

refurb wrote: post #92
ctrlp wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's fascinating how the vaccine makers have come out of this smelling like roses to so many and I wonder how long it will last. Not long ago, the NYT could write "the turpitude of the pharmaceutical industry is so commonplace that it has become part of the cultural wallpaper.” [0] Now we all seem very happy to accept their products and believe their claims. Truly wonderful to behold. I can recall books and arguments…

Well, I'm assuming people were more critical before covid because it's easy to thrown stones when there isn't an epidemic going on a millions dying?

Are you suggesting the criticism was/is unfounded?

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#100

Post by unanswered »

phonon wrote: post #51
dmix wrote: post #34

I’m curious what happened to all of the other vaccines that were in development, which we heard about in 2020. Now it still only seems to be Moderna and Pfizer. If supply is a major constraint we would benefit from expanding the number of options in the market and have more pharma production built in other countries. Although the pharma cartel is a very small community with a few mega firms. Making vaccine developmen…

Novavax is potentially even more efficacious, and should be widely available next year. [1] It's also not mRNA based FWIW. [2] [1] https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/... [2] https://www.nebraskamed.com/COVID/moths-and-tree-bark-how-th...

> All alone, the spike protein is harmless

(From your [2])

This is a lie. The spike protein has been shown to cause cardiovascular issues.

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