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Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

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Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#51

Post by phonon »

dmix wrote: post #34

I’m curious what happened to all of the other vaccines that were in development, which we heard about in 2020. Now it still only seems to be Moderna and Pfizer. If supply is a major constraint we would benefit from expanding the number of options in the market and have more pharma production built in other countries. Although the pharma cartel is a very small community with a few mega firms. Making vaccine developmen…

Novavax is potentially even more efficacious, and should be widely available next year. [1]

It's also not mRNA based FWIW. [2]

[1] https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/...

[2] https://www.nebraskamed.com/COVID/moths-and-tree-bark-how-th...

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#52

Post by andrewingram »

b112 wrote: post #6

This title is misleading. It isn't about them not being needed. Instead, as per article, it is about how these shots will save more lives, if administered to people without access to first shots! If vaccine doses were unlimited worldwide, 3rd shots (according to article logic) would by recommended for all.

Yeah, the underlying take is that booster shots may not be the most effective use of the constrained vaccine supply if we wish to get the pandemic under some semblance of control. But someone just reading the headline could easily walk away with the impression that booster shots don't have any benefit.

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#53

Post by kongin »

oytis wrote: post #23
ajross wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This title is misleading. It isn't about them not being needed. It also implies a level of consensus that doesn't exist. "Vaccine experts", as a whole, don't hold this opinion. This is about two specific dissenters in the FDA. It's not a completely cut and dry subject. There are tradeoffs with all such decisions, such as the value of a booster in one individual vs. a first injection to another in a different part o…

It's not just a couple of dissenters, the official position of WHO is the same - we need to vaccinate the whole world before booster shots and vaccinating children in the rich countries. As I see it there _is_ a consensus among scientists and healthcare professionals, but not among politicians who see booster shots necessary to keep their national economies up.

>At 6 months post-vaccine, 70% of the infection-naive NH residents had neutralization titers at or below the lower limit of detection compared to 16% at 2 weeks after full vaccination. These data demonstrate a significant reduction in levels of antibody in all groups. In particular, those infection-naive NH residents had lower initial post-vaccination humoral immunity immediately and exhibited the greatest declines 6 months later. Healthcare workers, given their younger age and relative good-health, achieved higher initial antibody levels and better maintained them, yet also experienced significant declines in humoral immunity. Based on the rapid spread of the delta variant and reports of vaccine breakthrough in NH and among younger community populations, boosting NH residents may be warranted

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.15.21262067v...

That study suggests that 16% of the elderly have no immunity to covid 2 weeks after vaccination and 70% after 6 months.

Not to put too fine a point on it, but we might as well not vaccinate anyone over 60 if we're not going to be giving them boosters every 3 months or so.

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#54

Post by fabian2k »

swader999 wrote: post #50
technothrasher wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What data are you referencing to claim that the vaccines do not provide some immunity? But importantly, the vaccines do reduce transmission. See the below study along with others. https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2107717 Admittedly, one weakness of the above study is that it took place before Delta was widespread. There isn't a lot of data yet on how much the vaccines reduce transmission with Delta, but the…

Reducing transmission isn't good enough! If you have an R naught above one you're still in trouble. It's common knowledge that countries with highest vaccination rates have spikes in cases right now. Israel and Gibraltar for example. Herd immunity for this was always impossible.

Israel isn't among the countries with the highest vaccination rates anymore, quite a few other countries have overtaken it.

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#55

Post by mercy_dude »

blagie wrote: post #9

The paper is thoughtful. The reporting on it is reckless. An accurate headline would be: "Vaccine experts: Widespread booster mandates aren't needed now," or perhaps "recommendations" There's a line between: * Mandatory. * Recommended. * Allowed. * Banned. If I am flying to do humanitarian work in Vietnam tomorrow, I absolutely need a booster shoot. Right now, the only way to get that is to go to a state which doesn'…

> “ recipients of vaccines with low efficacy or those who are immunocompromised2 (although people who did not respond robustly to the primary vaccination”

How do we measure it? Like is there a way to know through antibody tests?

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#56

Post by kongin »

newsbinator wrote: post #3
encryptluks2 wrote: post #2

Good cause if they are anything like the 2nd dose shots they should find a way to compensate people for missing 2 days of work with headaches, fever, chills, body ache, etc.

The compensation is not missing weeks or years due to Covid... or in rarer cases, you know, dying.

But think of the opportunity cost!

If you're under 40 and you spread the virus to your over 50 boss she has at least an order of magnitude more chance of dying than you. You could then move up the corporate ladder with her departure.

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#57

Post by scrollaway »

dmix wrote: post #34

I’m curious what happened to all of the other vaccines that were in development, which we heard about in 2020. Now it still only seems to be Moderna and Pfizer. If supply is a major constraint we would benefit from expanding the number of options in the market and have more pharma production built in other countries. Although the pharma cartel is a very small community with a few mega firms. Making vaccine developmen…

CureVac (mRNA based) didn't get good enough efficacy results, most likely due to the timing with the delta variant. They're working on a new version of the vaccine which targets that variant specifically and which will be available next year.

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#59

Post by ctrlp »

hef19898 wrote: post #13
occz wrote: post #5

I think this is the correct analysis - the focus should be to provide vaccines to the rest of the worlds nations that have not yet gotten widespread access to vaccines. This is likely to cause the greatest benefit in the form of fewer global deaths, and reduced global spread of the disease.

But developing countries pay less, so BionTech and Pfizer will have less profits. As cool as having a company like Biontech, run by immigrants, founded in Germany they always rubbed me the wrong way in terms of PR and business conduct since the start of the pandemic. With huge support from German media and politics. The continued dissing of Astrazeneca is just one example, the push for booster shots is another.

It's fascinating how the vaccine makers have come out of this smelling like roses to so many and I wonder how long it will last. Not long ago, the NYT could write "the turpitude of the pharmaceutical industry is so commonplace that it has become part of the cultural wallpaper.” [0] Now we all seem very happy to accept their products and believe their claims. Truly wonderful to behold.

I can recall books and arguments that made a good case that big pharma operates most like a mafia. I also recall hearing some tthatime ago that drug pharma execs themselves consider the vaccine guys to be like the mob, with a habit of aggressive shakedowns and pressure campaigns the norm in that industry, and thought they gave the industry a bad name.

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#60

Post by ctrlp »

ctrlp wrote: post #59
hef19898 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But developing countries pay less, so BionTech and Pfizer will have less profits. As cool as having a company like Biontech, run by immigrants, founded in Germany they always rubbed me the wrong way in terms of PR and business conduct since the start of the pandemic. With huge support from German media and politics. The continued dissing of Astrazeneca is just one example, the push for booster shots is another.

It's fascinating how the vaccine makers have come out of this smelling like roses to so many and I wonder how long it will last. Not long ago, the NYT could write "the turpitude of the pharmaceutical industry is so commonplace that it has become part of the cultural wallpaper.” [0] Now we all seem very happy to accept their products and believe their claims. Truly wonderful to behold. I can recall books and arguments…

Citation https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/17/opinion/covid-vaccine-big...
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