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Record number of environmental activists murdered

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Record number of environmental activists murdered

#141

Post by tomxor »

mandmandam wrote: post #120
anshumankmr wrote: post #105

So I was a little curious about some of the names from my country. I checked out the name of Isravel Moses. According to The Wire.in, an online publication, whose credentials one would not doubt when it comes to criticizing the government or corporations had this to say > On the night of November 8, Moses was hacked to death by alleged drug dealers, as a fallout of his reportage on the distribution and sale of ganja…

The list is of murdered environmental activists, not just global warming activists. And while yes, this has been happening for decades, it seems important to note that this is the second year in a row that the counted murders have reached new records. So I'm really not sure what your point is; it reads like a vague call to complacency.

I think the parent is implying a disingenuous broadening of the definition of "environmental activist", including people who are not expected to be part of that definition, and artificially magnifying the "number of environmental activists killed" for sensationalism.

Re: Record number of environmental activists murdered

#142

Post by q1w2 »

beowulfey wrote: post #26

Here is the original report [1]. For those of you who quip that the number of environmental activists has also been increasing in recent years (talk about being so close to realizing the point), I also want to clarify that Global Witness, the NGO who put out the report, has only been tracking these numbers since 2012. [1] https://www.globalwitness.org/en/campaigns/environmental-act...

It looks like these are mostly journalists being killed covering things like the drug trade or gang activities in developing countries.

I don't see any connection to the deaths and climate change.

Re: Record number of environmental activists murdered

#143

Post by harimau777 »

chrisseaton wrote: post #111
zdkl wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if you instead attach the names of responsible/beneficiary corporations Then you'll get annihilated by slander cases before any other inquiries even start. :(

It’s not slander if it’s true. And if it’s not true then don’t say it.

You also have to be able to afford to prove that it's true in court.

Re: Record number of environmental activists murdered

#144

Post by jokoon »

Gael Giraud, a french economist and professor, says that ecology cannot live with private property. He gives the example that if someone discovers oil, nothing prevents that person from exploiting it, because private property can be found in most constitutions, including human rights.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrUOXrl9C8g

It's a difficult subject, but it is going to be difficult to realize that capitalism and the culture of individualism are real obstacle to climate reform.

History will show that capitalism won against the soviet union, but I think that climate change is the limit of capitalism.

Technology will not save us, only sobriety will truly help. Hard to know how you can convince an entire population to not eat meat, use bikes and public transport, without passing laws.

The next 30 years are going quite a depressingly entertaining spectacle.

Re: Record number of environmental activists murdered

#145

Post by oefrha »

scatters wrote: post #115
oefrha wrote: post #74

I skimmed the report.[1] Very few corporation names can be found, unless I missed them. I found some attributions in highlight stories, e.g. Tate & Lyle Sugars in a Thailand case of sugar plantation taking land by force; but those are few and isolated. IMO a list of names of people murdered means almost nothing to any reader beyond the symbolic value. Now, if you also attach the names of responsible/beneficiary corpo…

Are you saying that an environmental activist being murdered is only newsworthy if you can find a way to pin the blame on a Western corporation? That seems a fairly callous attitude to take.

Who said Western? Are corporations or specifically multinationals uniquely Western? What a weird thing to get defensive about.

Re: Record number of environmental activists murdered

#146

Post by zalequin »

hulitu wrote: post #103
otikik wrote: post #70

Why isn't this called "terrorism"? If it was the opposite - if the CEOs of the companies were being killed, it would be called "eco-terrorism".

Because those in power define who are the terrorists.

True, but you don’t have to parrot what those in power tell you to say. Use their own terms against them, or use a completely different terminology - just make sure you’re the one who defines the terms, and that you’re the one to create context (i.e. meaning). Gather enough people who share the world-view you’ve created and you have a chance to overthrow existing power structures. But even if you don’t, you’ll be “free” - at least in the mental sense. Of course, depending on how radically different your views are from the status quo, you might also seem insane to some people (in which case its probably best to smile, nod and agree to what others are saying)

Re: Record number of environmental activists murdered

#147

Post by bratwurst3000 »

ArchieMaclean wrote: post #3

How does this compare to the growth in the number of environmental activists overall? Edit: it was pointed out below that it's probably more influenced by an increase in environmentally damaging activities such as logging. Edit 2: Yes, I think that murdering peaceful, innocent protestors is a disgusting act. I'm just questioning the article's use of statistics

I would like to Point out that the absolut number of environmental activists is hard to define. How would you start to count? Such a list would be a bad thing. So if there is no absolute number of all activist there is no way to compare dead and alive….but dead ones are more easy to count. And last thing…they are killed while trying to make the world a better place…the number of those people getting Killed should allways be zero.

Re: Record number of environmental activists murdered

#148

Post by sshine »

q1w2 wrote: post #142
beowulfey wrote: post #26

Here is the original report [1]. For those of you who quip that the number of environmental activists has also been increasing in recent years (talk about being so close to realizing the point), I also want to clarify that Global Witness, the NGO who put out the report, has only been tracking these numbers since 2012. [1] https://www.globalwitness.org/en/campaigns/environmental-act...

It looks like these are mostly journalists being killed covering things like the drug trade or gang activities in developing countries. I don't see any connection to the deaths and climate change.

You’re citing a report that literally doesn’t make that statement. Where do you get this information?

Here’s an excerpt about Columbia, where I’d expect drugs to be involved: “Colombia was once again the country with the highest recorded attacks, with 65 defenders killed in 2020.* A third of these attacks targeted indigenous and afro-descendant people, and almost half were against small-scale farmers.”

If you don’t see the connection, you’re either not reading the report you’re responding to, or you’re leaving out information.

Re: Record number of environmental activists murdered

#149

Post by GongOfFour »

yunohn wrote: post #40
IMTDb wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, seriously. The real question is : "Is environmental activism today more dangerous than it was yesterday". The typical way of computing "dangerosity" is through a ratio. Eg: number of death / kilometer for transportation systems, number of injury / game for sports, ... Why should the dangerosity of the "environmental activism" activity be computed differently, by only taking into consideration a numerator, and di…

Despite this weird sub-thread, the article isn’t talking about “dangerosity”. They’re reporting on the increase in evil activities by anti-environmental mega corps, who are also murdering opposing activists.

The article isn't original reporting at all, it is basically a press release for a report generated by an NGO. It's fine to question the source material here.

Re: Record number of environmental activists murdered

#150

Post by beowulfey »

q1w2 wrote: post #142
beowulfey wrote: post #26

Here is the original report [1]. For those of you who quip that the number of environmental activists has also been increasing in recent years (talk about being so close to realizing the point), I also want to clarify that Global Witness, the NGO who put out the report, has only been tracking these numbers since 2012. [1] https://www.globalwitness.org/en/campaigns/environmental-act...

It looks like these are mostly journalists being killed covering things like the drug trade or gang activities in developing countries. I don't see any connection to the deaths and climate change.

As per the title, you are right that it is not strictly about climate change — they were often environmental activists fighting against destructive land use conditions. You can find more details on page 12 of the official report I linked.
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