Live data from Hacker News

Hacker puts a video cam on an RC truck and saves the lives of 6 soldiers

abcnews.go.com

61–70 of 101 posts

Re: Hacker puts a video cam on an RC truck and saves the lives of 6 soldiers

#61
The first bomb disposal robot was built from a powered wheelbarrow[1] controlled remotely by a length of string. Within three weeks it was being used in action in Northern Ireland and within months had become one of the most valuable tools for ordnance officers serving there. There's a long military tradition of improvisation and invention.

[1]http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/obituaries/article6...

Re: Hacker puts a video cam on an RC truck and saves the lives of 6 soldiers

#62
This is an awesome success story and shows once again that given a chance (ie not explicitly banned or thwarted) can-do inventive american individuals will come up with great solutions that work well and save money and lives.

I can't help but move past that and, knowing how corruption, waste and inefficiency work, predict that this device will be banned by higher ups for field use, requiring that devices that cost at least $2 million each and are built by military contractors be used instead. I also predict that the public will be happier and more comfortable paying $2 million through taxes than paying $500 through passing the hat at the county fair, which he points out raised $6.

Re: Hacker puts a video cam on an RC truck and saves the lives of 6 soldiers

#63

I'm torn. On the one hand, I appreciate a good hack. On the other hand, if it's going to be used day in and day out to save lives, a certain amount of quality and versatility is needed so that you can rely on it. If every scout team uses a two foot tall RC car, bomb trip wires go up to 3 feet above ground, or they quit using trip wires and switch to magnetic induction coils like the trip lights for stop lights, or sp…

I remember reading an article in the UK edition of Wired about IEDs. Soldiers soon realised that roadside bombs were heat-detecting - as soon as the heat being given off from a truck driving past was detected, these IEDs would launch straight into the truck, killing soldiers on several occasions.

One morning a soldier had a brainwave and took a long metal pole and gaffer-taped it to the front of the truck. On the front of this he attached a toaster that he rigged to be 'always on'.

This heated toaster, protruding three meters forwards, was enough to trick roadside bombs of this kind for months afterwards. They would fire in completely the wrong direction.

Re: Hacker puts a video cam on an RC truck and saves the lives of 6 soldiers

#64
post #5

The funny thing is that if the DoD contracted out to build these, they would end up costing over $1 million each. There are a lot of unique opportunities for startups that are willing to use off the shelf technology and package it in unique ways. Provided, of course, you don't have any ethical qualms about selling technology that might be used for good or evil.

You are off by at least an order of magnitude in your price estimates, milspec rugged robots are expensive but on the order of $30,000 - $100,000 each not $1 million. Now those are complex systems with articulated arms, complex comms, and full control station style remote. If the military spec'd out a simple system, like the one in this article, it would cost much less. An existing contractor like iRobot would be per…

I totally agree. Here's the Packbot from iRobot who make Roomba:

http://www.irobot.com/gi/ground/510_PackBot

They're slow. The full military version is $120K but simple versions are half that.

Another analogy is the Firstlook:

http://www.irobot.com/gi/ground/110_FirstLook/

(There's a nice video).

Also commercially available:

http://www.qinetiq-na.com/products-talon.htm http://www.qinetiq-na.com/products-dragon-runner.htm

All but the FirstLook, which is new, are in routine use.

The article is sensationalist by not saying that.

Re: Hacker puts a video cam on an RC truck and saves the lives of 6 soldiers

#65
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree with the first part. However, I think that as long as you were fairly firm that you were only interested in building technology that saved lives (no RC toys with guns on them), I would not feel guilty in the slightest. After all, this truck can't really be used to hurt anyone, just save lives.

It absolutely can be. The XM-7 Spider is basically the same thing, except over secured remote control, and it holds munitions instead of video cameras. It's pretty difficult to build technology that only saves lives.

"To every man is given the key to the gates of heaven; the same key opens the gates of hell." - Bhuddist Proverb, via Feynman on whether science can be good or bad

Re: Hacker puts a video cam on an RC truck and saves the lives of 6 soldiers

#66
So, I am excited about this, but there is a major problem with thinking that this could be scaled up without increasing the cost.

What happens when we have hundreds of these things out there, and insurgents wise up to them? I can imagine the conversation:

"Hey, check it out. Now we can get an X11 receiver and we can watch the video feed from all the nearby US troops' scout drones. Now we just wait for a drone to come into range and we can use remote detonators instead of trip wires."

I think military hardware is way too costly in general, and this RC truck is a cool success story, but scaling it up would only be beneficial in the short term. It is a cat and mouse game. That said, we need more rapid innovations like this to keep our troops safe. Just don't think we can solve all our problems without a lot of engineering.

Solving the eavesdropping problem will require engineering. That said, wasn't there a similar problem with our incredibly expensive predator drones sending the video feeds unencrypted? http://online.wsj.com/article/SB126102247889095011.html

Re: Hacker puts a video cam on an RC truck and saves the lives of 6 soldiers

#67

So, I am excited about this, but there is a major problem with thinking that this could be scaled up without increasing the cost. What happens when we have hundreds of these things out there, and insurgents wise up to them? I can imagine the conversation: "Hey, check it out. Now we can get an X11 receiver and we can watch the video feed from all the nearby US troops' scout drones. Now we just wait for a drone to come…

You could encrypt the video feed.

Re: Hacker puts a video cam on an RC truck and saves the lives of 6 soldiers

#68
post #20
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, if you don't sell it for at least 1M$, you won't get any contract, it doesn't look serious enough. Terrestrial drones were being done during WWII, Russians were remote-controlling full-sized tanks in the 40s, these techs should be obvious by now. I have been working for a defense project about instrumenting some armored vehicles with video cameras and monitors. The project was more than 10 years old when I…

Let me be the first to say thank god they don't. We should all count our blessings that hackers tend to be peaceful people by nature. Imagine if we were trying to kill each other.

Yes, lets leave that to the physicists please.

Re: Hacker puts a video cam on an RC truck and saves the lives of 6 soldiers

#69

I'm torn. On the one hand, I appreciate a good hack. On the other hand, if it's going to be used day in and day out to save lives, a certain amount of quality and versatility is needed so that you can rely on it. If every scout team uses a two foot tall RC car, bomb trip wires go up to 3 feet above ground, or they quit using trip wires and switch to magnetic induction coils like the trip lights for stop lights, or sp…

I remember reading an article in the UK edition of Wired about IEDs. Soldiers soon realised that roadside bombs were heat-detecting - as soon as the heat being given off from a truck driving past was detected, these IEDs would launch straight into the truck, killing soldiers on several occasions. One morning a soldier had a brainwave and took a long metal pole and gaffer-taped it to the front of the truck. On the fro…

These two anecdotes suggest that we should teach a hacker mentality to soldiers. Or have a hacker (or a group of hackers) with each unit where they identify problems, experiment, and implement solutions. Hopefully the military would place more value on the intelligence and creativity of the common soldier and invest more in order to nurture it.

Re: Hacker puts a video cam on an RC truck and saves the lives of 6 soldiers

#70

So, I am excited about this, but there is a major problem with thinking that this could be scaled up without increasing the cost. What happens when we have hundreds of these things out there, and insurgents wise up to them? I can imagine the conversation: "Hey, check it out. Now we can get an X11 receiver and we can watch the video feed from all the nearby US troops' scout drones. Now we just wait for a drone to come…

So...what. The enemy can see where they placed their own bombs? This thing is going to be 100 meters or so (at most) away from a humvee with people in it.

That was the same argument, by the way, for why it didn't matter that the drone feeds were non-encrypted. The enemy already knows where they are, they already know that the drone is there, the video feed gets them nothing.

Post reply on HN