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Hacker puts a video cam on an RC truck and saves the lives of 6 soldiers

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Re: Hacker puts a video cam on an RC truck and saves the lives of 6 soldiers

#41

Post by Cushman »

digikata wrote: post #25
Iv wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, if you don't sell it for at least 1M$, you won't get any contract, it doesn't look serious enough. Terrestrial drones were being done during WWII, Russians were remote-controlling full-sized tanks in the 40s, these techs should be obvious by now. I have been working for a defense project about instrumenting some armored vehicles with video cameras and monitors. The project was more than 10 years old when I…

At that point you'll have one. Now try to make it it work through extreme weather - hot, cold, pouring rain, etc. Now make it reliable to shock so you aren't fixing thing every 50 miles or so. Ok, write the reference manuals so that 18yr old mechanics how to install, maintain, replace them. You've got some sharp mechanics there, but you have a few dumb ones too. The manual will involve breaking things down to a painf…

Yeah, that's gonna take more than a trip to the hackerspace— maybe a Kickstarter.

Re: Hacker puts a video cam on an RC truck and saves the lives of 6 soldiers

#42

Post by dkokelley »

dhughes wrote: post #30

I'm surprised the reveres isn't true that small RC planes or land vehicles are not being used as unmanned bomb delivery devices by the Taliban. If this were to happen I'd guess Libyan rebels would do it since I see a lot of fabrication of weapons by them.

The defense is the same as cellphone-triggered bombs: jam RF when moving in unfriendly territory.

Re: Hacker puts a video cam on an RC truck and saves the lives of 6 soldiers

#43

Post by RomP »

digikata wrote: post #25
Iv wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, if you don't sell it for at least 1M$, you won't get any contract, it doesn't look serious enough. Terrestrial drones were being done during WWII, Russians were remote-controlling full-sized tanks in the 40s, these techs should be obvious by now. I have been working for a defense project about instrumenting some armored vehicles with video cameras and monitors. The project was more than 10 years old when I…

At that point you'll have one. Now try to make it it work through extreme weather - hot, cold, pouring rain, etc. Now make it reliable to shock so you aren't fixing thing every 50 miles or so. Ok, write the reference manuals so that 18yr old mechanics how to install, maintain, replace them. You've got some sharp mechanics there, but you have a few dumb ones too. The manual will involve breaking things down to a painf…

Some of the things you're listing are must-haves (secure channel), but most are not. If increasing reliability and versatility makes the drone last 10 times longer and costs 10 times more -- it's not worth it in the long run: it's goal to trigger the first IED it can find, anyway. Even if it's not, it still would be cheaper and easier to buy 10 drones or make them modular enough so anybody with some X-Box experience can snap a new one together in the field. Manuals? -- nah, see the X-Box thing above. Besides, who reads RC cars' manuals? Replace/repair? -- a dumpster full of modular parts is lightyears ahead of any repair technician in the field. Production lines? -- there already exist production lines for RC cars, aren't they?

To put it in the familiar context: what you're describing (and what DoD is used to) is a mainfraime. These guys just made a PC.

Re: Hacker puts a video cam on an RC truck and saves the lives of 6 soldiers

#44

Post by pkteison »

I'm torn. On the one hand, I appreciate a good hack. On the other hand, if it's going to be used day in and day out to save lives, a certain amount of quality and versatility is needed so that you can rely on it. If every scout team uses a two foot tall RC car, bomb trip wires go up to 3 feet above ground, or they quit using trip wires and switch to magnetic induction coils like the trip lights for stop lights, or speed bumps that the car can't handle get built all over, or patrols can't safely go out on rainy days when the streets are muddy. I worry that this only works well when it's a disposable individual hack used as an additional precaution, not as a standard issue primary first line of defense.

Re: Hacker puts a video cam on an RC truck and saves the lives of 6 soldiers

#45

Post by [deleted] »

digikata wrote: post #25
Iv wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, if you don't sell it for at least 1M$, you won't get any contract, it doesn't look serious enough. Terrestrial drones were being done during WWII, Russians were remote-controlling full-sized tanks in the 40s, these techs should be obvious by now. I have been working for a defense project about instrumenting some armored vehicles with video cameras and monitors. The project was more than 10 years old when I…

At that point you'll have one. Now try to make it it work through extreme weather - hot, cold, pouring rain, etc. Now make it reliable to shock so you aren't fixing thing every 50 miles or so. Ok, write the reference manuals so that 18yr old mechanics how to install, maintain, replace them. You've got some sharp mechanics there, but you have a few dumb ones too. The manual will involve breaking things down to a painf…

[deleted]

Re: Hacker puts a video cam on an RC truck and saves the lives of 6 soldiers

#46

Post by artmageddon »

sp332 wrote: post #35
jxcole wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree with the first part. However, I think that as long as you were fairly firm that you were only interested in building technology that saved lives (no RC toys with guns on them), I would not feel guilty in the slightest. After all, this truck can't really be used to hurt anyone, just save lives.

Just tie some explosives to it, like the RC-XD (explosive device) in Modern Warfare 2.

You beat me to the punch, but it was actually Call of Duty Black Ops. :)

Re: Hacker puts a video cam on an RC truck and saves the lives of 6 soldiers

#48

Post by krschultz »

pkteison wrote: post #44

I'm torn. On the one hand, I appreciate a good hack. On the other hand, if it's going to be used day in and day out to save lives, a certain amount of quality and versatility is needed so that you can rely on it. If every scout team uses a two foot tall RC car, bomb trip wires go up to 3 feet above ground, or they quit using trip wires and switch to magnetic induction coils like the trip lights for stop lights, or sp…

That's a good point. I'd say that the minimum to get through mud for a serious vehicle is something around the size of a small ATV, at which point you are talking about a completely different vehicle. This really only works on dry or paved roads.

Re: Hacker puts a video cam on an RC truck and saves the lives of 6 soldiers

#49

Post by shabble »

rokhayakebe wrote: post #23
Cushman wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let me be the first to say thank god they don't. We should all count our blessings that hackers tend to be peaceful people by nature. Imagine if we were trying to kill each other.

Well who do you think writes software that controls missiles?

I can't remember the exact quote, or even the source, but it was along the lines of "For engineers, the biggest [moral] issue with weapons development is that it is fun".

You can build some really neat things when you have a military R&D budget behind you. The downside is of course that it actively or passively hurt people.

And then there's the whole calculus-of-death/unintended consequence thing, where in theory, a more accurate missile is better for everyone because it reduces collateral damage. But because it kills less innocents, there are fewer qualms about using it more often. This applies strongly to the current UAV trend - You can politically spin (or just bury in accounting) "Ooops, We lost a $xMM drone", versus actual pilots dying.

Re: Hacker puts a video cam on an RC truck and saves the lives of 6 soldiers

#50

Post by shabble »

pkteison wrote: post #44

I'm torn. On the one hand, I appreciate a good hack. On the other hand, if it's going to be used day in and day out to save lives, a certain amount of quality and versatility is needed so that you can rely on it. If every scout team uses a two foot tall RC car, bomb trip wires go up to 3 feet above ground, or they quit using trip wires and switch to magnetic induction coils like the trip lights for stop lights, or sp…

Anything that disrupts the enemy's tactics could probably be considered valuable. Induction loops would be harder to build, transport and disguise vs a spool of piano wire and a friction fuze.

The tricky part is making sure it doesn't lull the people using it into a false sense of security. Once you identify the new tactic, you can adapt to it; once they start using magnetic triggers, you send your little RC car out with a big Neodymium magnet mounted on it or whatever.

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