Australian gov to use facial recognition and GPS tracking to enforce quarantine • Hacker News Board

Re: Australian gov to use facial recognition and GPS tracking to enforce quarantine

#131

Post by amanzi » Mon, Sep 13, 2021, 1:04 AM UTC

throwawayfear wrote: post #124

ehnto wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The borders are closed so it's a choice you have made to enter the country and require quarantine, you know what you signed up for it is made abundantly clear. I think if you asked the majority of Australians they would say that they are happy people have to quarantine at the hotels and that they be guarded, since most of our outbreaks have been from quarantine breaches. So as far as a democracy goes that's right on…

So you're okay with increasingly stricter subversion of freedom, because you've consumed media fear-mongering about the pandemic. The pandemic is not deadly enough to justify building a totalitarian regime. What would have been the case if you asked the majority of Germans what they thought about certain restrictions in the 1930s? Democracy is more than the "whole community setting the rules for the community." It is…

"The pandemic is not deadly enough..." I'm curious to know how many more deaths would be required, in your opinion, for it to be considered deadly enough?

Re: Australian gov to use facial recognition and GPS tracking to enforce quarantine

#132

Post by bigiain » Mon, Sep 13, 2021, 1:08 AM UTC

throwawayfear wrote: post #113

notatoad wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yeah, there's been a lot of freaking out about this, but it's much less oppressive than being forced to stay in a quarantine hotel.

Read out loud what you are saying. You are saying that government ordering you to quarantine in your house, with facial recognition and GPS tracking in your own home, is less oppressive than being forced to stay in one of their quarantine hotels. And you're saying that in response to all the "freaking out" about this. Keep in mind that when quarantined this way, if you fail to respond to their random, RANDOM , pings.…

> Read out loud what you are saying. You are saying that government ordering you to quarantine in your house, with facial recognition and GPS tracking in your own home, is less oppressive than being forced to stay in one of their quarantine hotels. And you're saying that in response to all the "freaking out" about this.

A slightly different reading of what they're saying is:

"The government ifs offering to allow you to quarantine in your home instead of the otherwise mandatory 2 week stay in a sealed room in quarantine hotel, if you agree to download and use this app."

And given that, rightly or wrongly, many Australian states are charging several thousand dollars for hotel quarantine, it's clearly a choice many people might choose to make.

Re: Australian gov to use facial recognition and GPS tracking to enforce quarantine

#133

Post by throwawayfear » Mon, Sep 13, 2021, 1:09 AM UTC

amanzi wrote: post #130

throwawayfear wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Returning travelers quarantining at home will be forced to download an app that combines facial recognition and geolocation. The state will text them at random times, and thereafter they will have 15 minutes to take a picture of their face in the location where they are supposed to be. Should they fail, the local police department will be sent to follow up in person. “We don’t tell them how often or when, on a random…

Given the choice, I think most people would choose the app option and to isolate in the comfort of their own home.

That is a false choice / false dilemma. "Which poison would you rather take" is not a meaningful choice.

And what comfort? Facial recognition in your home? GPS tracking? RANDOM pings that send police officers to your house for an in-person quarantine check fi you don't respond within 15 minutes?

Stop pretending to think about what most people would choose, and wake up to the reality staring you in the face.

Re: Australian gov to use facial recognition and GPS tracking to enforce quarantine

#134

Post by the_third_wave » Mon, Sep 13, 2021, 1:09 AM UTC

hug wrote: post #107

the_third_wave wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I would rather anti-vaxers leave the country than continue to hang around, yes Those supposed 'anti-vaxers' are more or less guaranteed to be vaccinated for nearly all diseases just like I assume you (and others who insist on calling anyone who is not toeing the party line by that epithet) are. Some people have natural immunity from having had SARS2. Some people are being advised by their doctors not to take the cu…

Approximately no one in Australia has 'natural immunity', because approximately no one here has had COVID. Those people who are advised by their docotrs not to get vaccinated are few and far between, but it turns out the current vaccine push takes those figures into account. The people who deem the risk of COVID lower than the vaccine are just straight up incorrect. They're either misled or just deliberately contrari…

Do you drink, smoke, drive a car, are you overweight, do you participate in high-risk sports, eat a lot of processed food, red meat, fatty fish from polluted waters, drink sugared carbonated water, keep dangerous pets? If so, do you voluntarily opt out of any hospital care related to these activities or habits? The list can be made much longer.

On the subject of people supposedly taking 'livestock medication'... really? I assume you mean those people are taking Ivermectin [1], a popular antihelmintic which also happens to demonstrate antiviral activity, preparations containing it being used both in veterinary as well as human applications? Are those people eating horse dewormers or taking Ivermectin tablets (Stromectol [2] et al)? If they're taking the latter, why call it 'livestock medication'?

Stop labelling people who happen to disagree with 'your' opinion. Just accept that not everybody agrees with 'your' standpoint or before you know it you'll find 'your' opinion to be in the crosshairs of the authoritarians - and then what do you do?

[1] As to the efficacy of Ivermectin for SARS2 prophylaxis or treatment the verdict is still out. It is unfortunate that this subject has been politicised to such an extreme that it has become a black/white issue, 'either you are with us or against us'.

[2] https://www.rxlist.com/stromectol-drug.htm

Re: Australian gov to use facial recognition and GPS tracking to enforce quarantine

#135

Post by shkkmo » Mon, Sep 13, 2021, 1:10 AM UTC

throwawayfear wrote: post #118

shkkmo wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was not defending the law. But the App that is the subject of the article serves to reduce the severity of that law and thus reduces government overreach. To be upset about the App, rather than the original quarantine law, is to be focusing attention in the wrong place.

Tell me what about this reduces government overreach and the severity of the law. Returning travelers quarantining at home will be forced to download an app that combines facial recognition and geolocation. The state will text them at random times, and thereafter they will have 15 minutes to take a picture of their face in the location where they are supposed to be. Should they fail, the local police department will…

Up until now you had no choice, when returning to Australia you had to pay to stay in a 2 week quarantine hotel.

Creating an alternative solution for home quarantine gives people more options.

You could argue that there was a better way to implement home quarantine. You could argue that the 2 week quarantine is goverment overreach. You could even argue that this option helps the government keep the 2 week quarantine in place longer by tempering its severity.

I don't see those sorts of rational arguments. I see a bunch of people making an irrational or uninformed argument that this extends government overreach by making the 2 week quarantine rule more severe.

Re: Australian gov to use facial recognition and GPS tracking to enforce quarantine

#136

Post by throwawayfear » Mon, Sep 13, 2021, 1:11 AM UTC

nineteen999 wrote: post #129

throwawayfear wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is the article's headline, and there wasn't enough space to edit in the specific state. But is it actually a meaningful distinction as far as these policies being constrained permanently to just one part of Australia? Will this spread everywhere or is there a reason why this would only be constrained to a really small town no one really notices?

> It is the article's headline, and there wasn't enough space to edit in the specific state. Sure - I noticed that and wasn't implying that you modified the article title. The article title is incorrect, at least in the way it reads at first glance - yes the South Australian government is "an Australian government", but it's not "The Australian Government". > But is it actually a meaningful distinction as far as thes…

Re: your point in #1

This other source does not say that it is voluntary.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/09/pandemic-a...

Returning travelers quarantining at home will be forced to download an app that combines facial recognition and geolocation. The state will text them at random times, and thereafter they will have 15 minutes to take a picture of their face in the location where they are supposed to be. Should they fail, the local police department will be sent to follow up in person. “We don’t tell them how often or when, on a random basis they have to reply within 15 minutes,” Premier Steven Marshall explained. “I think every South Australian should feel pretty proud that we are the national pilot for the home-based quarantine app.”

And are you comfortable remaining "not too concerned" as a Victorian when you admit that it's too early to tell if this idiocy will spread? Because idiocy it is, and spread it very well might. How long will you wait to call it out? Where will you draw the line in the sand? Power consolidates.

Re: Australian gov to use facial recognition and GPS tracking to enforce quarantine

#137

Post by throwawayfear » Mon, Sep 13, 2021, 1:14 AM UTC

hug wrote: post #90

throwawayfear wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you consider people with immunity from past infections to be antivaxers? https://www.science.org/content/article/having-sars-cov-2-on... Do you believe covid is dangerous enough to justify turning Australia into a totalitarian regime where you need to show papers to go anywhere and have constant surveillance even in your own home? Did you know they’re even dangling how many people can visit your home as a carrot?…

> Do you consider people with immunity from past infections to be antivaxers? In Australia, for all intents and purposes, yes. Thanks to the terrible "totalitarian regime", less than one percent of our population has yet to catch COVID. We've had even less deaths! It's fuckin' awesome that we've managed to come out of this so well, almost entirely thanks to lockdown. The route out of lockdown, without massively incre…

The law of gravity isn't different in Australia, and neither is 2+2. People with immunity from past covid have excellent protection, maybe even better than that from vaccination. To treat them as "antivaxers"..."in Australia, for all intents and purposes" and to then later label these people as "idiots, petulant children, or misled and out of touch with reality" is one hop and a skip away from dehumanizing them and justifying even worse.

You need to say what you are typing out loud because you are caught up in the feel-good tribalism of debating partisan issues online. When in reality, there are multiple legitimate reasons to not bend the knee including past infection.

It's interesting that you chide others for being out of touch with reality and yet you ignore the reality that past infection offers equal or better protection as mentioned by that source I gave you in the parent post.

But in any case, the very last sentence of your post is both refreshing AND alarming. You said:

"And all that said, if the government doesn't remove restrictions once we reach 80% vaccinated and more, I will be fighting those governments tooth and nail. But we're not there yet."

Refreshing because at least you still seem to have some amount of reason left, but alarming because you don't seem to realize that by then, it's going to be too late. You'll end up enslaved because you fell for the "hate the antivaxers" ploy and picked it as your tribal narrative of choice so you could feel good while arguing with people online. Even though the science is unequivocal that immunity from past infection is excellent.

You may also be interested in this information that is emerging:

"US researchers say teenagers are more likely to get vaccine-related myocarditis than end up in hospital with Covid"

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/sep/10/boys-more-at-r...

What now? You really think people reading this information are petulant children for choosing caution and simultaneously not wanting a totalitarian regime monitoring them and building systems of enslavement?

Realize that power consolidates. They will not need to remove these restrictions once you reach some threshold. Who will make them and how? By then more people will be trained to hate others and defend more. Realize that giving a government that kind of power is dangerous.

Re: Australian gov to use facial recognition and GPS tracking to enforce quarantine

#138

Post by jp0d » Mon, Sep 13, 2021, 1:15 AM UTC

tosstoyevsky wrote: post #99

hilbert42 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hate this and it's gross government overreach but it's those few bastards who've deliberately and surreptitiously defied quarantine that's given the government the excuse it needs to so act. Unlike the US, COVID was essentially controlled in Australia until some very specific violations of quarantine happened - and the outbreak traced to these violators. These outbreaks weren't of iffy origin, they were clearcut li…

At what point do you kill those that dare live their lives? This happened a generation ago to my people, they said we carried typhus and needed to be cleansed for the public health. Never again, huh?

That's not a good argument or a fair comparison, mate! One is a highly infectious disease that is spreading through contact and via air and the other is history! Covid has killed more than a million people and is continuing to do so as it mutates to get deadlier and deadlier. Please don't tell me that it's a lie and a conspiracy theory as I've lost family members to this engineered microscopic monstrosity!

Re: Australian gov to use facial recognition and GPS tracking to enforce quarantine

#139

Post by throwawayfear » Mon, Sep 13, 2021, 1:17 AM UTC

hilbert42 wrote: post #125

ephextom wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quarantine has been used in all kinds of societies for thousands of years during times of infectious outbreak. It’s described in the Bible, and it was used in the USA during the Spanish Flu. What is the point of quarantine without systems to ensure it is obeyed?

Exactly, for the life of me I cannot understand why some people just don't understand that. It's tragic really because many people have lost their lives through the bloodyminded actions of those who who've callous regard for others.

Your post could word for word be used for the opposite narrative too. Many people have lost their lives through the bloodyminded actions of those clamoring for a totalitarian regime and its systems of enslavement.

Re: Australian gov to use facial recognition and GPS tracking to enforce quarantine

#140

Post by throwawayfear » Mon, Sep 13, 2021, 1:21 AM UTC

bigiain wrote: post #132

throwawayfear wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Read out loud what you are saying. You are saying that government ordering you to quarantine in your house, with facial recognition and GPS tracking in your own home, is less oppressive than being forced to stay in one of their quarantine hotels. And you're saying that in response to all the "freaking out" about this. Keep in mind that when quarantined this way, if you fail to respond to their random, RANDOM , pings.…

> Read out loud what you are saying. You are saying that government ordering you to quarantine in your house, with facial recognition and GPS tracking in your own home, is less oppressive than being forced to stay in one of their quarantine hotels. And you're saying that in response to all the "freaking out" about this. A slightly different reading of what they're saying is: "The government ifs offering to allow you…

It is not a choice no matter how often the people defending it insist it's a choice. It's no more a choice than someone holding a gun to your head and asking you which poison you'd like to drink.

On what planet do we live, where all of a sudden that statement even in your version of the reading is in ANY way more palatable or reassuring? The government is offering you these choices:

1) Quarantine in a guarded quarantine hotel for two weeks in a sealed room

or

2) Quarantine in your home with facial recognition and GPS tracking and random pings that send the police to your home if you do not respond within 15 minutes

This is not a choice. This is the government giving you a false dilemma because it's tricking people into tolerating its massively expanded surveillance systems that it wants to build, and the normalization thereof. These things will not go away, just like the narrative until now has constantly shifted to keep the situation ongoing while power continues to consolidate.

These systems will be used for worse once they exist.