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England vaccine passport plans ditched, health secretary says

bbc.co.uk

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Re: England vaccine passport plans ditched, health secretary says

#141

Post by bequanna »

prawn wrote: post #128
bequanna wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In addition to the power, don’t forget the pseudo celebrity status that many formerly ignored politicians and bureaucrats have enjoyed. The hour long daily briefings rarely contain any new information and are nothing but pure ego and attention seeking. Exactly like a movie star whose time is passing, you should bet they will do whatever it takes to stay in the spotlight and stay relevant.

The daily briefings in NSW (Australia) ceased this week and there was immediate criticism that it was a vital service that should've been maintained. The media and public create that public brand; the health rep is generally just doing their job. In my state, the relevant person happens to have a recognisable hairstyle. It's not like she has a PR team going out telling people to dress as her for halloween or parties,…

I appreciate that you are able to give people the benefit of the doubt, but that isn’t human nature. Most people are not self sacrificing do gooders. Indeed, almost everyone is self interested.

Don’t be surprised when the person you cite above who will “feel safer without that level of attention” suddenly decides to step back into the limelight seeking some higher office or elevated position.

Re: England vaccine passport plans ditched, health secretary says

#142

Post by libertine »

isbvhodnvemrwvn wrote: post #110
0-_-0 wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Europe: 102.58 doses per 100 Israel: 163.74 doses per 100 (#5 in the world) Source: https://ourworldindata.org/explorers/coronavirus-data-explor...

Doses don't mean much if a large portion of the population have taken none.

Not to mention Janssen vaccine is a single dose and it's being widely used in some EU countries, which renders that measurement even more "useless" (in the sense that it doesn't give an accurate picture of the reality of the vaccination programs)

Re: England vaccine passport plans ditched, health secretary says

#143

Post by Ekaros »

mynameishere wrote: post #111

Reading threads like this, I get the sense that the very notion of civil liberties is completely foreign to vaccine fans.

The downward spiral has been observed for long time now. Civil liberties aren't really important unless it's some nebulous discriminated class... Freedom of speech is just about government, not general civil liberty. Gun rights were relevant are not important. And so on...

Re: England vaccine passport plans ditched, health secretary says

#144

Post by SideburnsOfDoom »

thepasswordis wrote: post #94

The thing that people seem to be ignoring in all of this is that people like having power. The vaccines are helpful to the recipient, but unless you are successful at completely shutting down travel to the rest of the world: not really that helpful to the people who haven't taken them. In fact, there is an argument for how over-vaccinating will be harmful to the unvaccinated. If you're vaccinated, you can still get a…

> If you're vaccinated, you can still get and transmit covid.

I can win the lottery, but I probably won't. Don't think of it as black or white, binary, can/can't. Unless you talk about the probability of getting and transmitting COVID, and how vaccination reduces these, you will be making nonsensical statements like the one above.

Re: England vaccine passport plans ditched, health secretary says

#145

Post by belter »

libertine wrote: post #97
rszfa100 wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? The graph under "Total de mortes" shows that the number of fatalities is higher right now than last year (when no one was vaccinated). We don't know yet if the clearly seasonal winter outbreak will be the same as last year (or worse).

First the graph of newly daily cases is trending downward since July, why did the he say they are not diminishing? If you compare to last year they were trending upward. If this is going to keep going down, sideways, or up we have no idea. About the "Total de Mortes", today you have more then double the amount of active cases, why are you ignoring that? >We don't know yet if the clearly seasonal winter outbreak will…

I was talking about the last few weeks. That is the almost straight line you see in the graph. You know what the curve looks like, and almost a copy? The curve in India one the countries with the smallest percentage of vacinnated people:

Have a look (13% vaccinated...):

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/world/india-covid-c...

Re: England vaccine passport plans ditched, health secretary says

#146

Post by SideburnsOfDoom »

NomeChomsky wrote: post #3

Good. There is no evidence to support them. You can still transmit the virus whilst double vaccinated. They do not slow spread only hospitalisation.

> You can still transmit the virus whilst double vaccinated. They do not slow spread

That's not correct.

I can win the lottery, but I probably won't. Don't think of it as black or white, binary, can/can't. Unless you talk about the probability of getting and transmitting COVID, and how vaccination reduces these, you will come to false conclusions like that.

Re: England vaccine passport plans ditched, health secretary says

#147

Post by Ekaros »

mcny wrote: post #138
Ekaros wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not apply that to also vaccinated people?

You will go to jail for repeatedly driving drunk even if you never have an accident. Do you also want prison time for unvaccinated people who repeatedly go out in public? I support you if you do.

No, but clearly many people do.

I don't think we should make distinction if person spreading virus was vaccinated or not if we start to punish for that. That should not affect the punishment or how guilty person is. I see absolutely no reason why being vaccinated should protect you from criminal charges in case we start to charge for spreading covid. The person is as guilty without or with vaccine. They should have gone be tested or taken actions to not spread it.

Re: England vaccine passport plans ditched, health secretary says

#148

Post by xphilter »

whywhywhywhy wrote: post #124
xphilter wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn’t another reason be to reduce cost? It’s expensive to treat covid patients and the vaccine is proven to reduce the incidents of hospitalization. But I’m willing to forgo all vaccine mandates, mask mandates, etc if we can all agree that unvaccinated have to pay for their own treatment or buy bespoke covid insurance.

Can you think of a solution that doesn't just allow government officials to profit even more? If you build in a system where the government can extract profit by not complying with their actions, what makes you think you wont someday find yourself on the wrong side of those actions? Keep in mind, your side might not always be the one in control and once you hand over extra power to the government it's extremely rare…

How does the govt profit here? They are losing b/trillions due to covid in lost taxes, medical expenses, and individual sentiment. What is your solution if you don’t want people vaccinated? I couldn’t care less if people get vaccinated but I def don’t want to pay for them when there’s an easy way to lower those costs right now. (And, please tell me, who is “my” side? Logic and reason?)

Re: England vaccine passport plans ditched, health secretary says

#149

Post by ed25519FUUU »

gadders wrote: post #139
tchalla wrote: post #39

> "I've never liked the idea of saying to people you must show your papers or something to do what is just an everyday activity, but we were right to properly look at it. We regularly show papers for everyday activities - library card for reading books, ID for a hotel stay, driving license for driving a car, ID to pickup a parcel etc.

Voting?

In America it’s widely controversial to require ID when voting, but not so in the rest of the world.

Re: England vaccine passport plans ditched, health secretary says

#150

Post by dia80 »

quotemstr wrote: post #80
MatteoFrigo wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have the right to be unhappy. However, looking at the latest data from the UK at https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/... , it is not clear whether pushing for more vaccines will change the situation in any way that makes you happy. For example, that report says that 97% of the blood donors has some kind of antibodies, either from vaccine or previous infection. This number is almost 100% fo…

> pushing for more vaccines will change the situation in any way that makes you happy. Given that even highly-vaccinated localities like Iceland (74% vaccinated) keep seeing waves of COVID cases and that COVID waves peak and decline without countries achieving the 90% rate vaccine proponents suggest as the threshold for herd immunity, we have to begin seriously questioning the public health case for mandatory univers…

Vaccines cut severity of disease and thus the societal burden of infection. While I agree these measures are potentially draconian it's wrong to say they convey no benefit.
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