Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

England vaccine passport plans ditched, health secretary says

bbc.co.uk

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

101–110 of 460 posts

Re: England vaccine passport plans ditched, health secretary says

#101

Post by nilkn »

NomeChomsky wrote: post #3

Good. There is no evidence to support them. You can still transmit the virus whilst double vaccinated. They do not slow spread only hospitalisation.

While this sub may be a bit distasteful for some, I recommend spending some time reading through the countless examples documented there of folks who refused the vaccine based on this kind of thinking and then ended up dying often very unpleasant deaths while unable to breathe for days or weeks: https://www.reddit.com/r/HermanCainAward/

This sub has seen extremely rapid growth, which is perhaps one of the most tragic "success" stories of a subreddit ever.

Re: England vaccine passport plans ditched, health secretary says

#102

Post by design-material »

Loveaway wrote: post #72
libertine wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Just let people decide if they want to get the vaccination or not, and go on with life as normal. Uh, where did I say that people shouldn't decide? Do you think we got +80% (87% if you factor in single doses), at gun point? If these passports had an influence on 5 percentual points I was being extremely generous. It's all about education, being informed, and a sense of duty. Probably the majority where fearful and a…

No the tourists have to put up with YOUR shit. You are immune for fucks sake, how hard is it to actually be welcoming and say: It's ok for unvaccinated to enter a restaurant. We can live without implicitly checking everyone. We don't need to be like that and can act like normal decent humans again! Is that so hard?

Yo if someone wants to visit my house/town/city then fuck yeah they need to put up with my shit

Re: England vaccine passport plans ditched, health secretary says

#103

Post by thepasswordis »

mapme wrote: post #100
thepasswordis wrote: post #94

The thing that people seem to be ignoring in all of this is that people like having power. The vaccines are helpful to the recipient, but unless you are successful at completely shutting down travel to the rest of the world: not really that helpful to the people who haven't taken them. In fact, there is an argument for how over-vaccinating will be harmful to the unvaccinated. If you're vaccinated, you can still get a…

For me the major point of vaccinating others is ensuring hospitals are not overwhelmed and have enough capacity to treat other patients and perform elective procedures. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.politico.com/amp/news/2021/...

Yeah this sure is a common talking point that comes up, but unfortunately for those who enjoy enforcing these things, it is not backed up by any data.

Daily deaths (which is the best proxy we have for hospitalization) is nowhere near any of the peaks we have had in the last year and a half.

If somehow deaths are down but hospital capacity is also down, that is the fault of the hospitals, not the vaccinated. https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

Re: England vaccine passport plans ditched, health secretary says

#104

Post by throwaway316943 »

skytreader wrote: post #86
throwaway316943 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is snarky but poses a real question. If we ban people from spaces or events due to their vulnerability to COVID then why do we not do the same for those vulnerable to other diseases? Flu is a good example for the young and elderly since it poses a significant risk. It would strain the argument but you could make a case for banning the obese from fast food restaurants based on this reasoning as well.

Don't forget what makes COVID19 so insidious: without testing, it takes time before an infected contagious person shows symptoms. By the time they decide to stay off public spaces, they have already potentially spread the virus. With the common flu, you know almost instantly so you stay home to recover. Fat people know their condition and it's their choice to eat fast food anyway. And obesity is also non contagious.

The only people they would need to protect are other unvaccinated people who have made the choice to take whatever risk there is in going unvaccinated. The choice to not be vaccinated involves knowing that you may contact the virus from someone else and may become very ill or die. Attempting to protect someone by taking away their ability to make that choice is equivalent to removing the option to eat enough food to become obese.

Re: England vaccine passport plans ditched, health secretary says

#105

Post by libertine »

belter wrote: post #91
libertine wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't even take your comment seriously.

Look at the active cases graph starting at 8 Aug and the line to latest 10 of Sep. In approximately 45,000 cases there is a variation of -/+ 2000 is that not basically a straight line? Also what I mean by there is no correlation between deaths and the vaccination program, and there, I could have been a bit clear in my explanation, is the following: Again looking at the active cases diagram between 3 of March and 15 o…

>Look at the active cases graph starting at 8 Aug and the line to latest 10 of Sep. In approximately 45,000 cases there is a variation of -/+ 2000 is that not basically a straight line?

Look at the daily active cases, does it look like a straight line?

>So I am calling attention to very quick and strong record of active cases seen within 2 to 3 months in the active cases diagram versus the gradual vaccination program.

Why do you dismiss the number of active cases when you're talking about deaths? Isn't the fact that we have more than double the active cases an indicator that less infected people are dying?

Because what you're doing is simply assuming the virus mortality rate remained constant, and all the extra cases are just cases that weren't identified in the past, and you have nothing to back this claim.

Re: England vaccine passport plans ditched, health secretary says

#106

Post by mcny »

scrollaway wrote: post #81
MatteoFrigo wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have the right to be unhappy. However, looking at the latest data from the UK at https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/... , it is not clear whether pushing for more vaccines will change the situation in any way that makes you happy. For example, that report says that 97% of the blood donors has some kind of antibodies, either from vaccine or previous infection. This number is almost 100% fo…

Blood donors are going to be underrepresentative of people with a fear of needles, people who don't trust the medical system, and be overrepresentative of selfless people. I suspect an extremely strong correlation between giving blood and being vaccinated.

I agree that there must be a strong correlation.

I had a classmate who was horrified to learn I checked the organ donor box in my driver's license. Their parents told them if you check that box, the medical staff will be more likely to let you die so they can reuse your parts. I did't have any authoritative answer but the point is there are people out there with fears that sound rational but are completely in the realm of conspiracy theory.

Re: England vaccine passport plans ditched, health secretary says

#107

Post by bequanna »

thepasswordis wrote: post #94

The thing that people seem to be ignoring in all of this is that people like having power. The vaccines are helpful to the recipient, but unless you are successful at completely shutting down travel to the rest of the world: not really that helpful to the people who haven't taken them. In fact, there is an argument for how over-vaccinating will be harmful to the unvaccinated. If you're vaccinated, you can still get a…

In addition to the power, don’t forget the pseudo celebrity status that many formerly ignored politicians and bureaucrats have enjoyed.

The hour long daily briefings rarely contain any new information and are nothing but pure ego and attention seeking.

Exactly like a movie star whose time is passing, you should bet they will do whatever it takes to stay in the spotlight and stay relevant.

Re: England vaccine passport plans ditched, health secretary says

#108

Post by nobodyandproud »

quotemstr wrote: post #82
bryanlarsen wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's wrong. The vaccine is moderately effective at preventing the spread of early variants. It's not very effective at preventing the spread of Delta from an infected person, but it's quite effective (but far from perfect) at preventing people from getting infected in the first place, thus overall significantly slowing spread . https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02187-1

Vaccine passport proponents routinely cite "slowing [the] spread" as a reason to impose vaccination requirements despite discoveries earlier this year showing that vaccinated individuals can still spread the disease. In light of these discoveries, vaccine passports and other coercive measures don't make any dense. Delta has an R value of 8. That makes it one of the most infectious diseases we know about. Future varia…

Delta has an R value of 6 to 7.

Measles has a much higher R value of 12 to 18, yet the vaccination is highly successful.

You’re promoting disinformation.

Re: England vaccine passport plans ditched, health secretary says

#109

Post by xphilter »

thepasswordis wrote: post #94

The thing that people seem to be ignoring in all of this is that people like having power. The vaccines are helpful to the recipient, but unless you are successful at completely shutting down travel to the rest of the world: not really that helpful to the people who haven't taken them. In fact, there is an argument for how over-vaccinating will be harmful to the unvaccinated. If you're vaccinated, you can still get a…

Wouldn’t another reason be to reduce cost? It’s expensive to treat covid patients and the vaccine is proven to reduce the incidents of hospitalization. But I’m willing to forgo all vaccine mandates, mask mandates, etc if we can all agree that unvaccinated have to pay for their own treatment or buy bespoke covid insurance.

Re: England vaccine passport plans ditched, health secretary says

#110

Post by isbvhodnvemrwvn »

0-_-0 wrote: post #67
martin8412 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That must have been a while ago, because Israel is nowhere near top in vaccination rate anymore. They had a fast rollout, but are now stuck at around 61%.. Meanwhile, western Europe is around 80-90% vaccinated

Europe: 102.58 doses per 100 Israel: 163.74 doses per 100 (#5 in the world) Source: https://ourworldindata.org/explorers/coronavirus-data-explor...

Doses don't mean much if a large portion of the population have taken none.
Post reply on HN