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England vaccine passport plans ditched, health secretary says

bbc.co.uk

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Re: England vaccine passport plans ditched, health secretary says

#41

Post by Aeolun »

White_Wolf wrote: post #30
Ekaros wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Clearly only true solution to stop spread is permanent lockdown. And ban bars, restaurants, events and any sort of gatherings forever. I believe all pro-vaccine people already agree that no sacrifice of freedoms is too big for greater good. After all, why wouldn't they support keeping the vulnerable safe? Cost is only small sacrifice in bodily autonomy and clearly most effective thing to do.

I didn't have the vaccine for the greater good. I had it because, for me, the risk vs reward balance was tilted that way. I have high blood pressure and I'm borderline diabetic. Not much of a choice for me. Why would someone that is healthy risk ending up like that dead BBC presenter and leave their family behind for complete strangers? Who gives you(or anyone) the right to decide what risks they should take and that…

The chances of ending up dead from COVID is higher than the chance of dying from the vaccine for basically everyone right?

Even if you’re in your 30’s and in perfect health.

I absolutely agree that I’d much rather die from COVID than from the vaccine that is supposed to save me. But logically speaking, choosing to not take the vaccine doesn’t make any kind of sense.

It’s like choosing to drive a car because you might get hit by lightning if you take a walk.

Re: England vaccine passport plans ditched, health secretary says

#42

Post by maxerickson »

martin8412 wrote: post #24
ddxxdd wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Last time I checked, the top 3 countries in terms of vaccination rates are also the top 3 countries in terms of number of active covid cases. Israel is #1 in vaccination rates and #1 in daily cases.

That must have been a while ago, because Israel is nowhere near top in vaccination rate anymore. They had a fast rollout, but are now stuck at around 61%.. Meanwhile, western Europe is around 80-90% vaccinated

https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations?country=FRA shows more like 60%-70% for the total population (I turned on more countries than France).

Are your numbers percent of adults or including people that have recovered from infection or something?

Re: England vaccine passport plans ditched, health secretary says

#43

Post by tonfa »

FridayoLeary wrote: post #34
gorgoiler wrote: post #10

I'm confused. The NHS app already has QR codes to show proof of vaccination. I've been to public events that required the QR code to get in (though I don't think they scanned it.) You can generate new codes whenever you like and they are valid for 30 days if, for example, you wanted to print it out instead of taking your phone. Wasn't this the passport scheme?

tbh the document and qr code are trivial to generate and forge from what i remember. I'm not condoning it i'm just pointing out its weakness.

They're not based on public key crypto like in the rest of the world?

Re: England vaccine passport plans ditched, health secretary says

#44

Post by azalemeth »

cstross wrote: post #2

Note this is specific to England . Other countries in the UK are following their own course -- the Scottish government agreed in principle to introduce vaccine passports as of a week ago and will require them for entry to large venues from October 1st: https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-vaccine-passports-requir... The NHS is a fully devolved issue, with separate NHS organizations in Wales, England, Northern Ireland,…

This is very true. I personally find it mad that the UK is the nation with the highest covid infection rate in western europe, with ~30k new cases/day. Long covid is a real, debilitating condition and if anything is going to affect the young -- who are least vaccinated -- the most, thus creating a long-term disease burden and morbidity cost on both those individuals and the country as a whole. Ignoring the human cost of this, from an economic point of view alone, surely this is mad! -- it's very much not in the national interest.

I'd therefore naïvely think that the integrated burden would be greater than the short, sharp dip that comes with more conservative measures -- but this government is rolling ahead full-steam with pretending that the disease isn't there and telling us all to "get on with our lives". That makes me feel deeply, deeply unhappy. One in ~70 people nationally have covid at the moment. Nightclubs, etc, typically contain far more than 70 people!

Re: England vaccine passport plans ditched, health secretary says

#45

Post by kilroy123 »

tchalla wrote: post #39

> "I've never liked the idea of saying to people you must show your papers or something to do what is just an everyday activity, but we were right to properly look at it. We regularly show papers for everyday activities - library card for reading books, ID for a hotel stay, driving license for driving a car, ID to pickup a parcel etc.

Not to go into a restaurant to eat. Which is what is now being asked in many places.

Re: England vaccine passport plans ditched, health secretary says

#46

Post by throwaway316943 »

throwawaylinux wrote: post #19
_Microft wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dr. Drosten [0], maybe Germany's most well known virologist at the moment, recently commented on rules to only allow vaccinated/recovered (but not unvaccinated but tested) people into restaurants and venues [1]. The reasoning behind that is a lot different than you would expect. It is not because unvaccinated would pose a threat to others but because they are at risk of catching the disease from a vaccinated, infecte…

They could ban elderly and overweight people and other such undesirables^Wvulnerable people from civil society too. For their own good.

This is snarky but poses a real question. If we ban people from spaces or events due to their vulnerability to COVID then why do we not do the same for those vulnerable to other diseases? Flu is a good example for the young and elderly since it poses a significant risk. It would strain the argument but you could make a case for banning the obese from fast food restaurants based on this reasoning as well.

Re: England vaccine passport plans ditched, health secretary says

#47

Post by dgellow »

tinus_hn wrote: post #37
Aeolun wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not sure if I would consider the vice of drinking alcohol quite the same as the vice of infecting and potentially killing other people.

If vaccinated people can spread the virus, which they can, going to a bar they can also infect and ‘kill’ people. So yes, it’s pretty much the same.

You’re clearly trolling here.

The virus is an invisible agent spreading exponentially throughout society, putting the health system under a massive stress. That’s of course not what smoking, drinking, or over-eating is about…

Re: England vaccine passport plans ditched, health secretary says

#48

Post by davb »

tchalla wrote: post #39

> "I've never liked the idea of saying to people you must show your papers or something to do what is just an everyday activity, but we were right to properly look at it. We regularly show papers for everyday activities - library card for reading books, ID for a hotel stay, driving license for driving a car, ID to pickup a parcel etc.

Indeed. Bear in mind that that before becoming Health Secretary, Javid was very recently Chancellor of the Exchequer. Perhaps his motivations lie somewhere other than public health.

Re: England vaccine passport plans ditched, health secretary says

#49

Post by thinkingemote »

cstross wrote: post #2

Note this is specific to England . Other countries in the UK are following their own course -- the Scottish government agreed in principle to introduce vaccine passports as of a week ago and will require them for entry to large venues from October 1st: https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-vaccine-passports-requir... The NHS is a fully devolved issue, with separate NHS organizations in Wales, England, Northern Ireland,…

The purchase (and maybe rollout?) of the vaccines was done at the nation level rather than individual country.

Re: England vaccine passport plans ditched, health secretary says

#50

Post by davb »

kilroy123 wrote: post #45
tchalla wrote: post #39

> "I've never liked the idea of saying to people you must show your papers or something to do what is just an everyday activity, but we were right to properly look at it. We regularly show papers for everyday activities - library card for reading books, ID for a hotel stay, driving license for driving a car, ID to pickup a parcel etc.

Not to go into a restaurant to eat. Which is what is now being asked in many places.

Unless you are a young person (or look like one) and decide to have alcohol with your meal. As much an optional act as going to a restaurant in the first place.
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