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England vaccine passport plans ditched, health secretary says

bbc.co.uk

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Re: England vaccine passport plans ditched, health secretary says

#11

Post by Ekaros »

tinus_hn wrote: post #6

As they should be, considering that the vaccines do not stop people from getting infected and infecting others. Making sure there are only vaccinated people in a bar does not mean the people inside can’t get infected so this measure does not help achieve that goal.

Clearly only true solution to stop spread is permanent lockdown. And ban bars, restaurants, events and any sort of gatherings forever. I believe all pro-vaccine people already agree that no sacrifice of freedoms is too big for greater good.

After all, why wouldn't they support keeping the vulnerable safe? Cost is only small sacrifice in bodily autonomy and clearly most effective thing to do.

Re: England vaccine passport plans ditched, health secretary says

#12

Post by _Microft »

NomeChomsky wrote: post #3

Good. There is no evidence to support them. You can still transmit the virus whilst double vaccinated. They do not slow spread only hospitalisation.

Dr. Drosten [0], maybe Germany's most well known virologist at the moment, recently commented on rules to only allow vaccinated/recovered (but not unvaccinated but tested) people into restaurants and venues [1]. The reasoning behind that is a lot different than you would expect. It is not because unvaccinated would pose a threat to others but because they are at risk of catching the disease from a vaccinated, infected but asymptomatic guest (you would only find these if everyone would be tested).

[0] He's co-discoverer of SARS-Cov1 and co-developed the first workflow for the realtime PCR test that was approved for SARS-Cov2: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Drosten (en), https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Drosten (de)

[1] Here is a transcript of the interview that he made these comments in, in german language. I linked directly to the page that it is on: https://www.ndr.de/nachrichten/info/coronaskript324.pdf#page...

Re: England vaccine passport plans ditched, health secretary says

#13

Post by _Microft »

tinus_hn wrote: post #6

As they should be, considering that the vaccines do not stop people from getting infected and infecting others. Making sure there are only vaccinated people in a bar does not mean the people inside can’t get infected so this measure does not help achieve that goal.

Vaccinated are actually at a lot lower risk to catch the disease and even less likely to actually develop symptoms and severe cases. Keeping unvaccinated out protects them from those who can spread it unknowingly.

Re: England vaccine passport plans ditched, health secretary says

#15

Post by tinus_hn »

_Microft wrote: post #13
tinus_hn wrote: post #6

As they should be, considering that the vaccines do not stop people from getting infected and infecting others. Making sure there are only vaccinated people in a bar does not mean the people inside can’t get infected so this measure does not help achieve that goal.

Vaccinated are actually at a lot lower risk to catch the disease and even less likely to actually develop symptoms and severe cases. Keeping unvaccinated out protects them from those who can spread it unknowingly.

Or you can not accept the nanny state and let people decide for themselves over things that affect themselves. Who knows, if you afford people that kind of respect they might even believe that states ideas on whether getting vaccinated is good for them.

Re: England vaccine passport plans ditched, health secretary says

#16

Post by tinus_hn »

Ekaros wrote: post #11
tinus_hn wrote: post #6

As they should be, considering that the vaccines do not stop people from getting infected and infecting others. Making sure there are only vaccinated people in a bar does not mean the people inside can’t get infected so this measure does not help achieve that goal.

Clearly only true solution to stop spread is permanent lockdown. And ban bars, restaurants, events and any sort of gatherings forever. I believe all pro-vaccine people already agree that no sacrifice of freedoms is too big for greater good. After all, why wouldn't they support keeping the vulnerable safe? Cost is only small sacrifice in bodily autonomy and clearly most effective thing to do.

Well, of course it’s mostly about sacrifices other people have to make. You know, ‘I don’t go to festivals so I don’t mind if they’re banned’. But ‘it’s inconvenient if my children are quarantined from school so that should be lenient’.

Re: England vaccine passport plans ditched, health secretary says

#17

Post by ddxxdd »

libertine wrote: post #9

Well, if the large majority of your population is already vaccinated, I guess these passports could potentially be dismissed, if masks are still mandatory, but for some countries - like Portugal where we have +80% of the pop. vaccinated - the main concern are tourists that completely disregard any etiquette or measures in place. So I think keeping passports is a good measure, not perfect due to breakthrough infection…

Last time I checked, the top 3 countries in terms of vaccination rates are also the top 3 countries in terms of number of active covid cases.

Israel is #1 in vaccination rates and #1 in daily cases.

Re: England vaccine passport plans ditched, health secretary says

#18

Post by WorkLobster »

Ekaros wrote: post #11
tinus_hn wrote: post #6

As they should be, considering that the vaccines do not stop people from getting infected and infecting others. Making sure there are only vaccinated people in a bar does not mean the people inside can’t get infected so this measure does not help achieve that goal.

Clearly only true solution to stop spread is permanent lockdown. And ban bars, restaurants, events and any sort of gatherings forever. I believe all pro-vaccine people already agree that no sacrifice of freedoms is too big for greater good. After all, why wouldn't they support keeping the vulnerable safe? Cost is only small sacrifice in bodily autonomy and clearly most effective thing to do.

This is a ridiculous straw-man take and you know it. Please aim for helpful discussion instead of empty sarcasm.

Re: England vaccine passport plans ditched, health secretary says

#19

Post by throwawaylinux »

_Microft wrote: post #12
NomeChomsky wrote: post #3

Good. There is no evidence to support them. You can still transmit the virus whilst double vaccinated. They do not slow spread only hospitalisation.

Dr. Drosten [0], maybe Germany's most well known virologist at the moment, recently commented on rules to only allow vaccinated/recovered (but not unvaccinated but tested) people into restaurants and venues [1]. The reasoning behind that is a lot different than you would expect. It is not because unvaccinated would pose a threat to others but because they are at risk of catching the disease from a vaccinated, infecte…

They could ban elderly and overweight people and other such undesirables^Wvulnerable people from civil society too. For their own good.
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