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England vaccine passport plans ditched, health secretary says

bbc.co.uk

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Re: England vaccine passport plans ditched, health secretary says

#31

Post by libertine »

ddxxdd wrote: post #17
libertine wrote: post #9

Well, if the large majority of your population is already vaccinated, I guess these passports could potentially be dismissed, if masks are still mandatory, but for some countries - like Portugal where we have +80% of the pop. vaccinated - the main concern are tourists that completely disregard any etiquette or measures in place. So I think keeping passports is a good measure, not perfect due to breakthrough infection…

Last time I checked, the top 3 countries in terms of vaccination rates are also the top 3 countries in terms of number of active covid cases. Israel is #1 in vaccination rates and #1 in daily cases.

I don't know where you getting that information, last time I checked Israel wasn't even in the top10 countries.

Last week Portugal was number 2, and our cases have been dropping (which is a good sign for winter, though it's still early), also deaths and hospitalizations are nowhere near pre-vaccine numbers.

We even had breakthrough cases in homes and care centers for the elderly, the majority seem to be mildly symptomatic or asymptomatic, very few deaths.

Re: England vaccine passport plans ditched, health secretary says

#32

Post by Aeolun »

Ekaros wrote: post #11
tinus_hn wrote: post #6

As they should be, considering that the vaccines do not stop people from getting infected and infecting others. Making sure there are only vaccinated people in a bar does not mean the people inside can’t get infected so this measure does not help achieve that goal.

Clearly only true solution to stop spread is permanent lockdown. And ban bars, restaurants, events and any sort of gatherings forever. I believe all pro-vaccine people already agree that no sacrifice of freedoms is too big for greater good. After all, why wouldn't they support keeping the vulnerable safe? Cost is only small sacrifice in bodily autonomy and clearly most effective thing to do.

> I believe all pro-vaccine people already agree that no sacrifice of freedoms is too big for greater good.

Just like the anti-vaccine/science people think any sacrifice they have to make is too much?

God forbid you’d do something that helps your fellow man instead of yourself.

Re: England vaccine passport plans ditched, health secretary says

#33

Post by [deleted] »

_Microft wrote: post #12
NomeChomsky wrote: post #3

Good. There is no evidence to support them. You can still transmit the virus whilst double vaccinated. They do not slow spread only hospitalisation.

Dr. Drosten [0], maybe Germany's most well known virologist at the moment, recently commented on rules to only allow vaccinated/recovered (but not unvaccinated but tested) people into restaurants and venues [1]. The reasoning behind that is a lot different than you would expect. It is not because unvaccinated would pose a threat to others but because they are at risk of catching the disease from a vaccinated, infecte…

[deleted]

Re: England vaccine passport plans ditched, health secretary says

#34

Post by FridayoLeary »

gorgoiler wrote: post #10

I'm confused. The NHS app already has QR codes to show proof of vaccination. I've been to public events that required the QR code to get in (though I don't think they scanned it.) You can generate new codes whenever you like and they are valid for 30 days if, for example, you wanted to print it out instead of taking your phone. Wasn't this the passport scheme?

tbh the document and qr code are trivial to generate and forge from what i remember. I'm not condoning it i'm just pointing out its weakness.

Re: England vaccine passport plans ditched, health secretary says

#35

Post by jmull »

tinus_hn wrote: post #6

As they should be, considering that the vaccines do not stop people from getting infected and infecting others. Making sure there are only vaccinated people in a bar does not mean the people inside can’t get infected so this measure does not help achieve that goal.

Thanks for the Covid misinformation, buddy! Thanks in part to your diligent work, many people will get sick and die! Give yourself a pay on the back! And whatever you do, suppress this: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/effective...

Re: England vaccine passport plans ditched, health secretary says

#36

Post by Ekaros »

Aeolun wrote: post #27
tinus_hn wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The same brand of ‘successes’ can be achieved by banning alcohol, tobacco, fast food or whatever vice you want.

I’m not sure if I would consider the vice of drinking alcohol quite the same as the vice of infecting and potentially killing other people.

I think alcohol might be even more dangerous to others than being unvaccinated. Violent drug users are well known ending up in fights and even causing death or permanent damage when they attack randomly at others during night. Or even kill them sometimes. So I think we should apply the new standard to it and ban it totally.

Re: England vaccine passport plans ditched, health secretary says

#37

Post by tinus_hn »

Aeolun wrote: post #27
tinus_hn wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The same brand of ‘successes’ can be achieved by banning alcohol, tobacco, fast food or whatever vice you want.

I’m not sure if I would consider the vice of drinking alcohol quite the same as the vice of infecting and potentially killing other people.

If vaccinated people can spread the virus, which they can, going to a bar they can also infect and ‘kill’ people. So yes, it’s pretty much the same.

Re: England vaccine passport plans ditched, health secretary says

#38

Post by _Microft »

refurb wrote: post #20

I haven’t seen much about this but I assume the passport systems are a potentially huge security risk. The ones I’ve seen require personal identifying information (yet again) which you know is stored in a new database (again).

> which you know is stored in a new database (again).

The (european) vaccination certificates include all necessary information in a QR code that is stored locally, either digitally in an app or as actual print-out of the QR code. You only have to show an id card to proof that this QR code belongs to you then (it also encodes your full name and date of birth for making the connection).

Re: England vaccine passport plans ditched, health secretary says

#39

Post by tchalla »

> "I've never liked the idea of saying to people you must show your papers or something to do what is just an everyday activity, but we were right to properly look at it.

We regularly show papers for everyday activities - library card for reading books, ID for a hotel stay, driving license for driving a car, ID to pickup a parcel etc.

Re: England vaccine passport plans ditched, health secretary says

#40

Post by tinus_hn »

_Microft wrote: post #23
tinus_hn wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or you can not accept the nanny state and let people decide for themselves over things that affect themselves. Who knows, if you afford people that kind of respect they might even believe that states ideas on whether getting vaccinated is good for them.

You mean I could think for myself? OK, here is my reasoning: I am in no position to make an informed decision on these vaccines and measures by myself, so I trust those who actually know what they are talking about.

Wow, you thought for yourself and your conclusion was you’re not going to think for yourself. Well that’s fine. Now try affording others that same privilege and allow them to draw their own conclusions.
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