51–60 of 104 posts
Let's start providing federal assistance to medical degrees and certificates. People deserve better than to be treated by the purposefully ignorant.
The shortage of medical professionals is likely due to it being a difficult field and people not attending college at all, rather than cost.
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What sort of monsters would willingly subject peaceful, healthy, informed strangers to state-mandated medication, under threat of impoverishment and ostracism?
> state-mandated Is is state-mandated or private-company-mandated? > informed Yeah you're going to have to work a little harder in order to get that one accepted. > Strangers They are people who are in constant contact with very vulnerable group. Personal liberty ends where other person's liberty begins.
The problem with that argument is that it's disingenuous.
Sure, unvaccinated workers could spread the virus, but so can vaccinated workers. "It's less likely!" How much so? Where do we draw the line? Also, unvaccinated workers are more likely to know they are sick and stay home, which could very well make it less likely that they spread the virus. There are too many variables.
Also, there are many cases where the liberty of others is only taken into account if it is proven that someone's actions affected others. If an action that someone takes does not affect others in an appreciable way, we tend to ignore it. Say, for example, if someone buys almost all of an item from a store, preventing others from doing so. Or banks lending out more money than they have. Or a parent getting distracted by kids while driving.
In all of those cases, we ignore the potential that doing those things may infringe on others' rights, such as the parent causing an accident or the bank being unable to cover all of the withdrawals they have one day because inflation is rising, which causes a run on the bank.
So why don't we do that here? Why is it so important to prevent something that might happen rather than being okay with fixing what does happen?
Say that some people at a hospital get sick of COVID. The hospital has both vaccinated and unvaccinated workers. The hospital decides that it's going to hold the unvaccinated workers responsible for it. The workers complain and ask for proof they were responsible. So the hospital tests everyone, and the only people with COVID at the time were vaccinated. What does the hospital do then?
tl;dr: Personal liberty does end where another's begins, but what people forget is that the victim needs to prove that their rights were infringed before they get relief.
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By that logic, we could also argue—with the same degree of certainty—that the virus itself causes fertility issues, and therefore the vaccine prevents them.
The vaccine does not prevent transmission of the virus though. I'm not entirely sure what it supposedly does, in truth (reduce serious symptoms by a statistically-insignificant amount in over-80s?).
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There is no way that we could know whether that's a myth simply because the vaccines have not existed long enough to know for sure.
By that logic, we could also argue—with the same degree of certainty—that the virus itself causes fertility issues, and therefore the vaccine prevents them.
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Cold only very rarely kills babies. If we're going to do analogies then let's go all the way. Here on HN there was an article about how people who got through Covid were much more resistant to catching it again, compared to those who got a vaccine. It's almost as if their immune systems actually work! I despair for the people who got surprised by this, as if our immune systems became a thing only during the last 2 ye…
What is tiring is the insistence of folks like you completely ignoring the 650,000 deaths in the US alone. Deaths that are climbing to a rate not seen since the spike last winter yet and this recent surge could have been avoided if this vocal misinformed anti-vax minority would have protected themselves, their loved ones, and their community with a jab. So yes, the rest of us are pretty tired of the virtue signaling…
People keep screaming about climbing deaths but I am still not seeing it anywhere around me. At the entrance of the mall, everybody just sighs annoyed and puts on their mask, that's all that I observe and that's all that most of the populace observes as well.
I have seen barely any disruption except, of course, some local businesses closing down forever. The normal folk just kept going.
That's the problem with this pandemic: it became a religious war above anything else. Everyone just chose to believe a camp and went on to happily scream at the "other team" afterwards.
We need an actually informed and neutral party on these matters. A lot of the agents of this system have a vested economical interest for the lockdowns to continue -- and for people to get subjected multiple times to an experimental vaccine.
I got through Covid twice -- before the news even broke out (Dec 2019 and Jan 2020). And I wore a mask ever since and still do. But I have some heart problems and reading the same sources that you do -- about how almost healthy people died in a lot of pain after taking the vaccine -- I think I'll wait for a little bit, thank you very much.
I am not endangering anyone and I am tired of hearing that I do. No. I really don't endanger anyone. I just don't want to be an experimental lab rat and hold on to my life for a while longer.
Same goes for many others.
(And btw calling people anti-vax is super flamey. This is not what's happening here at all.)
From the sentiment on display so far; I'm wondering how long before we get advocates for involuntary vaccinations among the "essential workers" without whom our society will not function. If half the Post Office quits over this, that system isn't going to restart quickly or easily. Multiply that by many others.
https://www.apwu.org/news/apwu-statement-mandatory-vaccinati...
I encourage everyone to get vaccinated if they can, but coercive government mandates aren't a good solution.
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So you are wondering if Covid might be the one and only virus in history where antibodies don't work?
How many colds have you had?
https://www.webmd.com/cold-and-flu/cold-guide/common_cold_ca...
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One who understands that those “informed” strangers are making a decision that puts others at risk. Frankly, I do not understand why someone who presumably understands why second hand smoking and drunk driving are bad cannot transfer the same logic to being unvaccinated in the midst of a deadly and contagious plague.
Contagious? Yes. Deadly? Not really, especially for a novel virus. That's the difference. If we had a plague as bad as the Black Death, then yes, it would be deadly. People will use the death numbers as counter-arguments, yet most deaths (94%-ish last I heard) are from people who had comorbidities, like obesity and such. Until there is the same logic being applied to obese people as to the unvaccinated, as well as co…
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Contagious? Yes. Deadly? Not really, especially for a novel virus. That's the difference. If we had a plague as bad as the Black Death, then yes, it would be deadly. People will use the death numbers as counter-arguments, yet most deaths (94%-ish last I heard) are from people who had comorbidities, like obesity and such. Until there is the same logic being applied to obese people as to the unvaccinated, as well as co…
Obese people do not directly affect your health. I get that you’re trolling and don’t really believe what you say, but at least show some creativity here, rather than repeating nostrums that grew tired 250k dead ago.
Obese people do affect my health if they take a hospital bed that I could have used when I need it. Isn't that one of the same arguments applied to the unvaccinated?
If we didn't have so many obese people, would the hospitals be overloaded? Would we have a shortage of healthcare workers?
I am repeating them because repeating works. See the Parable of the Widow and the Unjust Judge. It is also what the others are doing, by repeating the same "tired" lines over and over about how the unvaccinated are killing grandmas.
By the way, I'm not trolling. I'm serious. HN guidelines ask that you assume good faith.
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Obese people do not directly affect your health. I get that you’re trolling and don’t really believe what you say, but at least show some creativity here, rather than repeating nostrums that grew tired 250k dead ago.
You are right that obese people do not directly affect my health. Neither does my vaccination status directly affect yours because vaccinated people spread the virus too. Obese people do affect my health if they take a hospital bed that I could have used when I need it. Isn't that one of the same arguments applied to the unvaccinated? If we didn't have so many obese people, would the hospitals be overloaded? Would we…