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The Privacy Lesson of 9/11: Mass Surveillance Is Not the Way Forward

aclu.org

11–20 of 96 posts

Re: The Privacy Lesson of 9/11: Mass Surveillance Is Not the Way Forward

#11

After reading the post, I fail to see any connection between 9/11 and the fact that mass surveillance is not the way forward. The article is also empty of any reason WHY mass surveillance would not be the way forward, or even why it should not be. This is a particularly useless article.

The ACLU has been useless as a civil rights organization for quite some time.

If you haven't already, I'd say it's definitely time to find a new defender of these sorts of issues.

Re: The Privacy Lesson of 9/11: Mass Surveillance Is Not the Way Forward

#12

> Congress must ensure that the next generation of Americans is able to speak and associate freely This is a bit ironic considering that the ACLU has abandoned many of its principled civil liberties stances of the past, including defense of free speech, and mostly turned into a progressive political organization. Some articles covering this change at the ACLU: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/06/us/aclu-free-speech.ht…

On the topic of privacy, it is strange to see the ACLU speak against mass surveillance when they recently flip flopped on vaccine mandates, which are fundamentally about bodily autonomy and health privacy:

I don't know why people argued for bodily autonomy when viruses don't care about bodily autonomy or who they infect.

It would be one thing if a disease isn't infectious, but that's not how covid-19 works.

Re: The Privacy Lesson of 9/11: Mass Surveillance Is Not the Way Forward

#13
post #7

This is from the ACLU nagware banner: "Efforts to erase voting rights, trans rights, and abortion rights for millions of people are escalating across the country. We’re responding on all fronts — from courts to legislatures in all 50 states, D.C., and Puerto Rico — but we need your help to win." Has the mission statement changed? Why are trans people, who are on every front page daily as needing more rights, being dr…

Because trans people deserve basic civil liberties? And who better to fight for them than the American Civil Liberties Union

What rights do trans people not have?

Re: The Privacy Lesson of 9/11: Mass Surveillance Is Not the Way Forward

#14

After reading the post, I fail to see any connection between 9/11 and the fact that mass surveillance is not the way forward. The article is also empty of any reason WHY mass surveillance would not be the way forward, or even why it should not be. This is a particularly useless article.

The ACLU has been useless as a civil rights organization for quite some time. If you haven't already, I'd say it's definitely time to find a new defender of these sorts of issues.

The ACLU has let the government increase surveillance, force mask usage, and now enforce vaccine usage across millions during the pandemic.

They're staying silent because they agree with the policies - and you may too - but there is no denying that in terms of invasion of personal freedom it's very great and they're turning a blind eye to it.

Re: The Privacy Lesson of 9/11: Mass Surveillance Is Not the Way Forward

#15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because trans people deserve basic civil liberties? And who better to fight for them than the American Civil Liberties Union

What rights do trans people not have?

Being trans is not a protected class, so discrimination against trans people is legal in many states. On top of that, states keep passing unconstitutional anti-trans bills like NC's famous "bathroom bill," which someone has to fight in court

Re: The Privacy Lesson of 9/11: Mass Surveillance Is Not the Way Forward

#16
post #12

> Congress must ensure that the next generation of Americans is able to speak and associate freely This is a bit ironic considering that the ACLU has abandoned many of its principled civil liberties stances of the past, including defense of free speech, and mostly turned into a progressive political organization. Some articles covering this change at the ACLU: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/06/us/aclu-free-speech.ht…

On the topic of privacy, it is strange to see the ACLU speak against mass surveillance when they recently flip flopped on vaccine mandates, which are fundamentally about bodily autonomy and health privacy: I don't know why people argued for bodily autonomy when viruses don't care about bodily autonomy or who they infect. It would be one thing if a disease isn't infectious, but that's not how covid-19 works.

I'm reminded of that classic exchange:

-"Your right to swing your fist ends at the other person's nose." -"But what if the other person's nose is continually growing?"

I could argue against the right to say anything I want on the grounds hearing it might exacerbate a self-diagnosed mental health issue. I might even find a way to do so honestly, if I worked at it. We can't have no impact on our fellow citizens, and I'm not saying I know the solution, but I'm sure giving them full control over our actions is not it.

Re: The Privacy Lesson of 9/11: Mass Surveillance Is Not the Way Forward

#17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What rights do trans people not have?

Being trans is not a protected class, so discrimination against trans people is legal in many states. On top of that, states keep passing unconstitutional anti-trans bills like NC's famous "bathroom bill," which someone has to fight in court

Trans people have basic civil liberties already. You can't kill them, they can own property, they can work a job, they can rent a house without discrimination (legally at least), and so forth.

Bathroom bills, on the other hand, require acceptance by everyone that they are who they say they are. And to put it simply, half of America (roughly speaking) doesn't find that convincing. To them, who are these people who would invade their right to bathroom privacy? Do their rights not matter? That's very different than a right to work a job or own property.

Re: The Privacy Lesson of 9/11: Mass Surveillance Is Not the Way Forward

#18
post #7

This is from the ACLU nagware banner: "Efforts to erase voting rights, trans rights, and abortion rights for millions of people are escalating across the country. We’re responding on all fronts — from courts to legislatures in all 50 states, D.C., and Puerto Rico — but we need your help to win." Has the mission statement changed? Why are trans people, who are on every front page daily as needing more rights, being dr…

[deleted]

Re: The Privacy Lesson of 9/11: Mass Surveillance Is Not the Way Forward

#20

That is the opposite lesson that the government is walking away with.

If Australia and Apple's CSAM programme are any indication, we are moving to a new era of mass surveillance enabled by ML.

That sounds absolutely scary... ML with thing we haven't used properly with humans in loop. So we don't even have proper good data for it...
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