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Our fridge just emailed us to say we opened its door too many times

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Re: Our fridge just emailed us to say we opened its door too many times

#311

Post by zzo38computer »

caymanjim wrote: post #140

I have a semi-related anecdote about surprises from devices. I use a CPAP. After a year, I went back to the doctor for a followup, and was asked to bring the SD card so they could review the data it collects. The device records the times and duration of use, various settings, and some metrics on breathing (apnea events, etc). I knew it recorded this stuff on an SD card. I brought the card to the appointment, but the…

> It turns out that the CPAP contains a cellular modem, and it phones home and reports in real-time. I had no idea this thing was recording any data at all. It wasn't verbally disclosed to me by either the doctor or the equipment technicians. I imagine there's something buried in the fine print of the (long lost) documentation, possibly even in the fine print of some form I signed, but I was caught off guard and none too pleased.

I should think that perhaps the legal requirements should be:

1. Its capability of wireless communcation, and a brief description of what it does, and the power and frequency it uses, should be clearly marked on the package.

2. The included documentation should need to describe the details of the wireless communication, including whatever is mentioned on the package.

3. There should be required it can be disabled without disabling its other functions, and this feature must be documented.

The other things that you mention too, should be applicable. I agree with you that "I don't agree with the undisclosed enforcement mechanism, nor do I agree that treatment should be contingent on monitoring" and that "This is insanely invasive, even with disclosure, and ought to be illegal without explicit, obvious verbal and written disclosure".

The medical devices should not be doing such surveillance (and medical devices should ideally not require a computer, either).

Re: Our fridge just emailed us to say we opened its door too many times

#312

Post by Spooky23 »

only_as_i_fall wrote: post #198
Spooky23 wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People line up at 4AM to get a garbage TV from Walmart on Black Friday. It’s a commodity and people only care about price. It’s a crowded marketplace, and the only way to eke out margin is better quality and/or features. For TVs, people in general give no shits about panel quality/color/etc, and volume shipment of better stuff is costly. But people love features, and bolting on software enhances margins at no or low…

Smart TV baffle me because their software is always garbage and even non-tech people can tell its garbage. I've never seen someone happy with the OS in their television and most people use an external box anyway. Yet every TV must be wifi compatible with a bunch of shifty streaming apps bolted on.

Remember that TV is for everyone. Think of the dumbest person you know - the dumbest person that guy knows also has a TV.

Re: Our fridge just emailed us to say we opened its door too many times

#313

Post by horsawlarway »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #273
horsawlarway wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that this is both invasive and a huge violation. My wife had pretty severe sleep apnea in the third trimester of her pregnancy, two experiences that make me think this practice needs to be nuked from orbit. 1. We properly read the manual for the device and adjusted the pressure so that it didn't cause problems with burping/ingesting air during sleep. Tissue gets softer in women as they near birth and the body…

That sounds suspicious. By any chance, were they making ongoing revenue from you using the device? I am not justifying that kind of harassment. It's out of line, whether they're making money from you using it or not. But it's more understandable if they want you to keep using it so that they keep getting paid.

My best understanding is that if patients use insurance to pay for the device/visits, payment to the Drs office is predicated on the patient following the prescribed treatment.

In our case, we actually bought the cpap out of pocket. But because this is unusual (It cost us about 800 dollars) the doctor we went to pays a company that does treatment monitoring.

This company is paid based on the number of patients that are "in compliance" with their treatment plan, because this makes it easier to bill against insurance for the Drs office.

The monitoring company has a financial incentive to make sure patients are in compliance. The Drs office has a financial incentive to make sure patients are in compliance.

---

Ironically - the thing that was actually needed was additional monitoring to tune pressure: it takes several readings over a few nights to manage pressure and keep bloating down and make sure it's not hard to breathe, while still ensuring that apnea events are in the acceptable range.

But additional monitoring is expensive - it requires clinician/doctor time. So there is little incentive to actually do this, in favor of forcing plan compliance.

Basically - My read of the situation is that the whole thing was rotten to the core. It had very little to do with patient comfort or health, and everything to do with maximizing insurance based revenue.

Re: Our fridge just emailed us to say we opened its door too many times

#314

Post by tzs »

beervirus wrote: post #245
lom wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ha! Last time I tried putting a rpi into a fridge… for cooling - it broke because of the humidity :) Should’ve used the freezer.

Oh I only put the actual temperature sensor inside. Ran some thin wires out to the pi under the door gasket.

I too have an RPi logging fridge/freezer temperature, but wirelessly.

I use this wireless fridge/freezer thermometer [1]. The units that go in the fridge and freezer communicate with the display unit via 433 MHz RF.

I have an RTL-SDR [2] on the RPi.

I run rtl_433 [3] on the RPi. rtl_433 understands the protocols of a large number of wireless sensors, including the ones used by those AcuRite sensors.

I've got it configured to output whatever sensor data it decodes in JSON format to a file, and a script that periodically parses new entries from that file and records in an sqlite DB the readings from the sensors I'm interested in.

Rtl_433 is a fun program. It recognizes and decodes the transmissions of a lot of things. It is getting several neighbor's wireless thermometers and humidity sensors, a soil moisture sensor, several different car tire pressure sensors, a smoke detector, some kind of keypad (wireless lock?), a car remote, some kind of energy monitor, a rain gauge, and a wind speed/direction sensor.

[1] https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004QJVU78/

[2] https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B009U7WZCA/

[3] https://github.com/merbanan/rtl_433

Re: Our fridge just emailed us to say we opened its door too many times

#315

Post by taylodl »

bavell wrote: post #246
horsawlarway wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that this is both invasive and a huge violation. My wife had pretty severe sleep apnea in the third trimester of her pregnancy, two experiences that make me think this practice needs to be nuked from orbit. 1. We properly read the manual for the device and adjusted the pressure so that it didn't cause problems with burping/ingesting air during sleep. Tissue gets softer in women as they near birth and the body…

This is really disturbing and it's disgusting how some companies out there act. We desperately need our leaders to address issues like this but they're all too busy pandering to and being lobbied by the very companies who are doing the abusing...

Let's generalize this statement - we desperately need leaders. Our current crew of so-called "leaders" are only interested in lining their pockets.

Re: Our fridge just emailed us to say we opened its door too many times

#316

Post by matheusmoreira »

horsawlarway wrote: post #181
caymanjim wrote: post #140

I have a semi-related anecdote about surprises from devices. I use a CPAP. After a year, I went back to the doctor for a followup, and was asked to bring the SD card so they could review the data it collects. The device records the times and duration of use, various settings, and some metrics on breathing (apnea events, etc). I knew it recorded this stuff on an SD card. I brought the card to the appointment, but the…

I agree that this is both invasive and a huge violation. My wife had pretty severe sleep apnea in the third trimester of her pregnancy, two experiences that make me think this practice needs to be nuked from orbit. 1. We properly read the manual for the device and adjusted the pressure so that it didn't cause problems with burping/ingesting air during sleep. Tissue gets softer in women as they near birth and the body…

That's horrible. Was that the doctors calling or some sort of CPAP monitoring company?

Re: Our fridge just emailed us to say we opened its door too many times

#317

Post by matheusmoreira »

horsawlarway wrote: post #313
AnimalMuppet wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds suspicious. By any chance, were they making ongoing revenue from you using the device? I am not justifying that kind of harassment. It's out of line, whether they're making money from you using it or not. But it's more understandable if they want you to keep using it so that they keep getting paid.

My best understanding is that if patients use insurance to pay for the device/visits, payment to the Drs office is predicated on the patient following the prescribed treatment. In our case, we actually bought the cpap out of pocket. But because this is unusual (It cost us about 800 dollars) the doctor we went to pays a company that does treatment monitoring. This company is paid based on the number of patients that a…

> maximizing insurance based revenue

That seems to be the state of US healthcare unfortunately. What used to be an ethical doctor-pactient relationship has turned into a doctor-insurance-patient monstrosity. Doctors actually have limited autonomy. They can't always do what's best for the patient, only what the insurance company agrees with.

Re: Our fridge just emailed us to say we opened its door too many times

#319

Post by lotsofpulp »

piva00 wrote: post #304
lotsofpulp wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the people for whom it would lower premiums would hand over the data, which results in the same thing. A health insurance company could offer me a $50 discount for a monthly blood test showing my sugar/cholesterol, and I would do it. Why should I pay for someone else’s cheese/alcohol/butter/sugar/bacon consumption. I assume the reason it is not currently implemented yet is because the cost of monthly blood tests…

> A health insurance company could offer me a $50 discount for a monthly blood test showing my sugar/cholesterol, and I would do it. Why should I pay for someone else’s cheese/alcohol/butter/sugar/bacon consumption. Because... You would be saving peanuts while someone else would have to pay much more (and sometimes drop their insurance completely) and that's a much worse result for society than you paying some 50 buc…

How do you know that I would save peanuts while someone else has to pay disproportionately more?

I already get a decent chunk of change ($700) just for annual preventative physical, flu shot, dental exam, blood test, and eye exam, which are all free.

There is a spectrum. ACA excluded tobacco users' risk from using tobacco, but left alcohol and sugar and saturated fats in? Why subsidize the latter 3 and not tobacco?

Should others in society subsidize drunk driving? Reckless driving? Should we keep bailing out people who continue to build and buy homes built in flood plains? It makes sense to spread costs around on unknown risks, but once a risk factor is known, I can see merit in discussing whether or not it should be subsidized.

Of course, there is a spectrum of "knowing" risk factors, and everyone is different, but some factors have a very high likelihood and some are not high enough to merit discriminating. However, that is for the actuaries to decide, because if they are wrong that will show up in the bottom line and then it will be corrected.

But things like alcohol and added sugar are basically proven to only cause harm. 1 alcoholic drink and 1 cupcake a month is not going to cause an insurance company to say let's raise this person's premium, but I do not see why an alcoholic and a person that eats donuts, starbucks, and ice cream everyday should be subsidized.

>This ultra-individualistic thinking really doesn't help a society.

On the contrary, subsidizing behavior that is known to causes problems to people's health and hence increases healthcare costs and decreases productivity does not help society. If anything, I would characterize unhealthy habits (which I am also guilty of) to be ultra-individualistic thinking.

Re: Our fridge just emailed us to say we opened its door too many times

#320

Post by JeffRosenberg »

bavell wrote: post #279
moftz wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is usually a setting for the rear seat reminder. It's to remind people to not leave their babies in the car. Maybe the volume is purposefully set a little high to wake the kid up just in case you forget.

Do people really need a reminder to not forget their babies? From a car? What?

99.999% of the time, no. But the consequences of forgetting are disastrous, and it's happened to plenty of well-meaning but distracted and preoccupied people. It was one of my greatest fears when my kids were young.
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