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A Twitter user insulted a German politician, then police raided his house

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Re: A Twitter user insulted a German politician, then police raided his house

#181

Post by nautilius »

aerosmile wrote: post #44
gewa wrote: post #26

As a German I have to emphasize that this has no support at all in Germany. The uproar was huge today and its seen as a misuse of power by the politician. Especially as he is not acting as a politician but as representative of the public office of interior. The search warrant needs to be issued by a judge and I'm sure there will be formal investigations how this happened. I would not be surprised if he will be forced…

It's still a fact that in Germany you have to be careful how you express yourself. It was a total shock to me to arrive in the States and hear my cab driver unload on the US President at the time. He really wasn't choosing his words very carefully, to the point that I had to wonder if this was some kind of a test by the INS. I still chuckle today about how my views have changed since then, and how much more comfortab…

‘Be careful how to express yourself’ is needlessly conspicuous. Never in my life have I seen anyone hold back to criticize politicians or people in power, most certainly not in some cab.

As I wrote somewhere else, if you think the first amendment gives you the possibility to say what you want to whom you want, without any consequences, go to the nearest policeman, start insulting him and his family. I am sure there will not be a problem, and he’ll sit through it for hours, if you just make clear you’re exercising your first amendment rights.

Re: A Twitter user insulted a German politician, then police raided his house

#182

Post by nautilius »

cirrus3 wrote: post #119
slapfrog wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you think either necessarily requires the other, in either circumstance?

both-sider showed up, welcome, did you have something to contribute?

They did, actually, I suggest you think about the comment a bit more.

Re: A Twitter user insulted a German politician, then police raided his house

#183

Post by krylon »

I know this shouldn't be made fun of, and as a German I am very upset about it. But: "Pimmelgate" is an awesome name.

Also, don't politicians know about the Streisand effect? If they hadn't raided this guy, nobody would know about the Tweet, and nobody would care one bit. Ethics and law aside, this was just a very dumb move.

Re: A Twitter user insulted a German politician, then police raided his house

#184

Post by jdavis703 »

charia wrote: post #22
jdavis703 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s possible for a democratic political system to exist, and still prohibit insulting politicians. It’s quite possible to criticize any politician without resulting to ad hominem attacks. Even the former US Vice President Dick Cheney nearly faced consequences for violating senate rules by telling a senator to “go f___ himself.”

Do you genuinely believe that laws that try to separate criticize versus insult can work? I can't see anything other than laws like that being abused by politicians and government officials to quell speech and create a chilling effect amongst the populace.

It seems to be working fine for Germany. In general I believe the chilling effect is often moderated by the Streisand effect.

Re: A Twitter user insulted a German politician, then police raided his house

#185

Post by Levitz »

WastingMyTime89 wrote: post #31
djrogers wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be hard to argue that a country where it's illegal to call someone a dick is particularly free, if that indeed is the case.

Then most of the world isn't free I fear. Why should it be legal to publicly insult someone? You can't punch people in the USA. Does that make the country not particularly free?

>Why should it be legal to publicly insult someone?

I consider an insult to be an expression of an opinion and thus protected by the 19th article of the universal declaration of human rights.

As far as I am concerned, ideally such blatant misuse of power in such an authoritarian way should land people in jail.

Re: A Twitter user insulted a German politician, then police raided his house

#186

Post by milesvp »

l33t2328 wrote: post #135
milesvp wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like driving while poor. It’s very very common for someone to get a fine that they can not pay, then lose their drivers license for failure to pay. Then get stopped and have to deal with driving without a license, which can include jail time. Source: good friend was a public defender.

Other countries don’t arrest people who drive without a license? I’ll need to see worldwide numbers, American numbers, and an exemplar list of laws before I accept such a broad conclusion.

You may also be missing the fact that many other countries weren’t designed around needing a car. Chances are, if you can’t afford a fine in the first place, losing access to driving will guarantee that you cannot work, making it less likely you can afford to pay the fine. It’s the escalation that’s the problem, but also indicative of the punitive nature of laws weighted against underclasses. Any law with a fixed rate fine is essentially a law that “only exists” for the poor.

You may be right that this is a world wide problem, and I’m only imagining places that don’t punish the poor so harshly. That said, I saw an article recently that gives me hope. It was a jurisdiction in the US where police handed out gift cards to some auto parts store instead of citations when pulling over vehicles for faulty equipment. While the cynic in me thinks this is just a play by the auto parts store to grow it’s market, I like to think it’ll provide good data to drive policy.

Re: A Twitter user insulted a German politician, then police raided his house

#187

Post by Levitz »

WastingMyTime89 wrote: post #82
zepto wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you not tell the difference between physical violence and words?

Worlds can hurt just as much if not more. Insults are unneeded. They are unnecessary to a discussion and they are a form of violence. Why should they be legal?

>Worlds can hurt just as much if not more.

I'm sorry but that only applies if you are thoroughly infantile. I don't mean this as an offense but that behavior is proper of literal children.

If some random person says a word and that has serious consequences upon the mental health of an adult person that person needs therapy.

Re: A Twitter user insulted a German politician, then police raided his house

#188

Post by lmm »

jimmaswell wrote: post #90
lmm wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are they wrong? Which is more likely to affect any given individual? Which country do you have the best chance of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness in?

> Which country do you have the best chance of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness in In my case, the US where I am for sure.

How do you deal with the healthcare thing? I'm not thrilled about the idea of getting arrested for calling someone a dick online, but realistically that seems like a much smaller risk to my prospects of a good life than the risk of medical bankruptcy if I lived in the US, particularly with the risk of losing health insurance through at-will firing.

(A dickhead manager lying and trying to fire me was the most stressful experience of my life even when I knew I was in the right and got a decent payout eventually; I can't imagine going through that with no legal protection)

Re: A Twitter user insulted a German politician, then police raided his house

#189

Post by h0nd »

ipaddr wrote: post #8

I would like a balanced perspective on this. What do our German/European think about this? Is this expected or a random event? Does this have public support?

The politician was bombed/trolled with real letters saying that he is indeed '1 pimmel', since what he did was a real dick move. Also, he didnt have his own internet address, so.. https://www.andygrote.de
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