OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce • Hacker News Board

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#641

Post by wikidani » Fri, Sep 10, 2021, 2:50 PM UTC

ljm wrote: post #169

xupybd wrote: post #85

I'm one shot in but think this is a huge government overreach to require this from businesses.

I'm not in the US so I can't speak for y'all, but the regulation isn't a bad thing. While you might not be affected personally, because you've been successful, it's better for the government to have your back than it is to entrust it to the free market. There's a hell of a lot of misery because the gov. doesn't step in enough, doesn't take care of its citizens. This was learned the hard way in 1929 and, for whatever…

I don't see how the gov't respond to an economical crisis has anything to do with modern authoritarianism. Regulation without oversight and checks and balances does lead to tiranny, more often than it doesn't

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#642

Post by sitkack » Fri, Sep 10, 2021, 2:51 PM UTC

jonahbenton wrote: post #554

mfer wrote: post #429

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An interesting element is my choice vs choices put on me. There is another angle people talk about... The building I work in was designed and built by others. Regulations mean they can't cut corners in their impact of me. A vaccine that protects me from getting the virus or getting a serious case. It's a difference between others work impacting my safety and my own choices impacting my safety. This is an area worth p…

Indeed. People who raise this argument tend to ignore the fact that the most important impact of the vaccine is the systemic protection it offers against the irresponsibility of individual choice. The vaccine does not in fact guarantee person X will not be infected or hospitalized. Widespread vaccination does result in systemic reduction in community spread. Ponder that.

I get branch of questions you are raising, but I don't see anyone educated raising opposition to the vaccine. There could be lots of reasons for this to be true, not seeing them, they are staying quiet, etc.

What we are witnessing in a distrust of non-demogogic power that has been instilled into the Republican base over the last 40 years. The multigrade attack on intellectualism, science, logic. That is like your opinion man. The same qualities of Fascism, the hero worship, the sacrifice of the individual, emotionally charged thinking, all of that is at the opposite end of the spectrum from the tools of the enlightenment.

If folks had better understanding of how vaccines work from a mathematical/statistical level their internal framing of "should I get it or not" would be altered. It isn't whether this is a benefit to me directly, but is it good for the heard. For society as a whole.

Thinking of the heard is socialist. Self-centered, me vs the world is another Republican strategy. All of them actually weaken the individual vs the state and the corporation.

Choice, responsibility, individualism are great concepts, but they have been perverted into a form of control that divides and distracts.

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#643

Post by HWR_14 » Fri, Sep 10, 2021, 2:51 PM UTC

mfer wrote: post #556

matwood wrote: post #486

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except the vaccine doesn't just protect you, it's also a layer of protection for anyone you might come in contact with. This is the whole concept of herd immunity. There are some people where the vaccine will not work, and others where it works but for whatever reason they are very susceptible to the virus. When you skip the vaccine you are now putting others at risk.

> When you skip the vaccine you are now putting others at risk. When you skip the flu vaccine you put others at risk. In a normal year 40k people die of the flu in the US. At what point do we draw what lines? I'm not suggesting what that point is. Just that we slow down, think about it, and understand the tradeoff. There is no perfect answer. There is also the element of the co-founding factors. Things like heart dis…

> At what point do we draw what lines?

Somewhere. One one side, we don't allow you to shoot anyone you see to protect yourself against COVID. On the other we don't allow people with COVID to intentionally infect people (even sneezing on them in an obviously purposeful way implying you have COVID is getting punished.) So we draw it somewhere.

> Just that we slow down, think about it, and understand the tradeoff.

No. I have no desire to slow down. It's killing people now. It's delaying cancer treatments now. It's causing people to die of burst appendixes because they cannot get treatment now. If we need to revisit, fine. But it has to be after taking action.

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

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Post by belltaco » Fri, Sep 10, 2021, 2:51 PM UTC

tolmasky wrote: post #350

The more time passes, the more I'm convinced that the right strategy would have been to make the vaccines initially cost $35,000 a dose, so that the outcry would have been that the Illuminati was making it impossible for the common man to get access to these life-saving drugs. Then, after months of argumentation, people could have had the victory of having the vaccines "liberated" and offered for free, such that gett…

Won't work. They will just say celebrities get saline or a different vaccine. I've actually seen this happen already when big politicians got jabbed first.

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

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Post by reportgunner » Fri, Sep 10, 2021, 2:53 PM UTC

zhdc1 wrote: post #379

refurb wrote: post #197

Contrast this with Germany. Employers are asking for permission to confirm employee vaccine status and the govt is saying “no, you can’t do that”. https://www.dw.com/en/germany-bosses-cant-ask-about-employee...

And yet, you can't get into a restaurant or cafe in Germany without a valid COVID-19 vaccination certificate or a negative test. The same is true for most EU member states.

Well not here (Czech Republic). People barely wear masks apart from public transport.

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#646

Post by lalaland1125 » Fri, Sep 10, 2021, 2:53 PM UTC

dang wrote: post #77

pokeymcsnatch wrote: post #72

So uh... I wouldn't normally do this, but this post isn't showing up anymore and so discussion has stopped. Why?

It set off the flamewar detector. It's also a dupe of https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28472856 .

It's not quite a dupe. That was federal workers. This is all employers with over 100 workers.

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#647

Post by ctrlp » Fri, Sep 10, 2021, 2:53 PM UTC

SamoyedFurFluff wrote: post #621

edot wrote: post #383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m vaccinated, but against this vaccine mandate. My proposed method is this: 1) If you want to get vaccinated, get vaccinated. 2) If you don’t, don’t. 3) If you go to the hospital with a COVID infection, your care is covered by insurance if you are vaccinated. If you are not, your care is not covered by insurance. This allows people to make decisions about their bodies, while also fending off the two main arguments…

The problem is that unvaccinated people still take resources up, insurance or no. People who need surgery for cancer or need an ICU bed.

Undocumented immigrants take resources up. (If fact they may be uninsured and unvaccinated, too.) You should favor refusing medical care to them (and education to their children) based on this argument from resources. Do you?

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#648

Post by peteradio » Fri, Sep 10, 2021, 2:53 PM UTC

tomrod wrote: post #602

peteradio wrote: post #511

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Anti-vaccination enthusiasts k

More specifically, herd immunity is necessary for people who cannot receive the vaccine to be protected. These types of folks are often the immunocompromised. Herd immunity kicks in when the proportion of folks with sufficient antibodies is high enough, formally modeled as H >= 1 - 1/R_0, where H is the herd immunity level and R_0 is the average rate of cases caused per each case. R_0 (or more appropriately R_t) is d…

And those who have already recovered are contributing to herd immunity at least on par with those vaccinated. Agree or disagree?

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#649

Post by oldcigarette » Fri, Sep 10, 2021, 2:53 PM UTC

moistrobot wrote: post #284

We're getting closer to two Americas. Policies like these will only exacerbate the transition. Expect to mass over non-compliance from conservative states and businesses

Well at least 4chan and hackernews are getting closer together (still miles apart but never thought i'd see the day). I'm not sure what to make if it all.

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#650

Post by kuraudo » Fri, Sep 10, 2021, 2:54 PM UTC

Ekaros wrote: post #258

I wonder should we also start mandating yearly influenza shots from everyone? And bar those who are not tested or vaccinated from work places? It would certainly save some lives wouldn't it?

As long as we mandate mandatory weight loss for all overweight citizens first.