This doesn't go far enough. I think that state governments need to start mandating vaccinations for all eligible citizens. Such mandates are clearly constitutional and have a great deal of historical precedent (see Jacobson v. Massachusetts, which upheld vaccine mandates in 1905).
OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce
151–160 of 1001 posts
Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce
#152Why must I be vaccinated if the vaccine doesn't prevent spread? Preventing spread to other people is the only plausible reason to force everyone to take it. I am comfortable catching the disease and even comfortable dying from it (the numbers are vastly on my side). I do far riskier things on a regular basis (extreme sports) and I do not understand the infantilization of society. Join the feedlot if you want but I wi…
> Why must I be vaccinated if the vaccine doesn't prevent spread? (...) I am comfortable catching the disease and even comfortable dying from it Became it's not about you , it's about everyone around you as a group. Those who are "comfortable catching the disease" are taking up a non-insignificant portion of available hospital beds, for instance, keeping health workers at their limit and preventing other people from…
If I may ask - can you tell me which city's hospital beds are full due to Covid 19 patients?
Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce
#153Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's "reasonable" in the sense of being slightly less draconian but completely unreasonable from a health perspective. Think about it: two people enter a workplace. One is unvaccinated but recently tested, so it can be said with good confidence they are not infected. The other is vaccinated but may well be sick and spreading it, especially as effectiveness wanes quickly. The other is waved through, the first is penal…
"Recently tested" doesn't mean you definitely don't have the Covid. It could that you weren't far enough along in your sickness at the time you were tested. It's all about risk. Someone who has been vaccinated has a very low likelihood of being sick with Covid. Someone who has recently been tested also has a low likelihood. IMO, though, if the tests are a week apart, that's a lot of opportunity for Covid to slip thro…
Preventing the spread of an infectious respiratory virus is a fools errand and we’ve known this forever. No amount of authoritarianism is enough to stop the spread. The mitigation efforts were always to avoid overrunning the hospitals, which we have managed easily.
Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce
#154I'm one shot in but think this is a huge government overreach to require this from businesses.
I’m not so inclined to agree at this stage, and I’m a hawk when it comes to this kind of thing. (A few days ago I was downvoted for criticizing the Colorado pay transparency law as an overreach).
This is certainly the best way to keep workers safe during a pandemic and given the information we have on the Pfizer vaccine — billions of doses given, 1.5 years of watching for adverse long term effects, full FDA approval — this move strikes me as appropriate for OSHA. OSHA requirements are supposed to be aggressively protective of the worker.
Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce
#155Earlier quoted context omitted.
How is this different from requiring hard hats? A hard hat won’t save you from getting a cut on your head from a dropped hammer but it will save you from having it break your head in two. Should OSHA stop requiring PPE?
A hard hat isn't a medical procedure. Some die from this vaccine. I weighed up the options and decided it was by far the lower risk option. I think people need to be free to make that choice. Freedom is so valuable.
Has anyone died from Pfizer? I’ve seen cases of heart inflammation, but I haven’t heard of any deaths.
Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce
#156Earlier quoted context omitted.
How is this different from requiring hard hats? A hard hat won’t save you from getting a cut on your head from a dropped hammer but it will save you from having it break your head in two. Should OSHA stop requiring PPE?
A hard hat isn't a medical procedure. Some die from this vaccine. I weighed up the options and decided it was by far the lower risk option. I think people need to be free to make that choice. Freedom is so valuable.
VAERS shows several thousand have died. Some estimate 45k based on a Harvard study on VAERS indicating a % that goes unreported.
Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce
#157Is the federal government going to provide employers with the same legal immunity granted to pharmaceutical vendors via the PREP act? Does this mandate incorporate the Sept 2021 CDC definition of vaccine, https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/coronavirus/article25... > Before the change, the definition for “vaccination” read, “the act of introducing a vaccine into the body to produce immunity to a specific disease.”…
Why would employers need additional immunity? Do schools usually need legal immunity when they require vaccines?
Side effects from vaccines are rare, but do occasionally happen. Because of the small risk, there’s a government program to pay money to anybody who suffers a serious side effect from taking a vaccine in exchange for granting legal immunity to vaccine producers ( https://www.hrsa.gov/vaccine-compensation/index.html ). So, to answer your question, schools don’t literally require legal immunity themselves, but they do benefit from legal immunity that that the government gives vaccine manufacturers: there’s no need to sue a school for requiring vaccines when there’s a special program to pay out benefits.
Last I knew, COVID-19 vaccines weren’t covered, but apparently I missed some news, since it’s the first thing listed on https://www.hrsa.gov/cicp .
Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce
#158Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not at all. Vaccine mandates date back to George Washington, if you look at it the right way.
Just because there is precedent doesn’t mean it’s not overreach.
It would be overreach were our country's stability not being undermined by large pockets of selfish lemmings that clearly cannot apply logic and critical thinking to their decision making.
I don't want to pay even more for everything in my life due to inflation caused by social parachutes because some toothless hillbillies in the South my taxes are ALREADY propping up don't understand their insecurity is being monetized by grifters.
If you don't want mandates, perhaps evaluate the consequences of applying the same level vitriol to every single request made of you by the collective regardless of its reasonability.
Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce
#159Earlier quoted context omitted.
Sadly, there won't be nearly enough who feel as you do. But I wholeheartedly applaud your statement!
Created this throwaway to say that there are at least some others who agree but are too scared of the current cultural tone to speak openly about this. I feel thoroughly alienated from my peer-group and family over their fervor for this response and against any who disagree.
I'm sorry, but I think this is time to speak up. We're losing rights month by month, slowly following in Australia's authoritarian footsteps. So many who oppose this are too afraid to say anything, and the result is the appearance of overwhelming support for such measures, mainly because those who do support are much more aggressive, louder, willing to directly attack others personally and even physically.
We shouldn't resort to those tactics, but we do need to make our voices heard, support each other, reassure everyone that we're just as numerous if not more so. It's important, this is our freedom and that of our children on the line.
I'd suggest following Rand Paul on twitter, and as he suggests, refusing to comply with these unscientific and unreasonable orders.
(truly, any mandate that fails to take in to account naturally acquired immunity or vaccine risks to individuals as noted in cdc and fda documents is completely lacking in scientific rigor.)
Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce
#160Earlier quoted context omitted.
How is this different from requiring hard hats? A hard hat won’t save you from getting a cut on your head from a dropped hammer but it will save you from having it break your head in two. Should OSHA stop requiring PPE?
From what others are saying, it's the unknown long term effects that are the difference. What if, knowing what we do now about it, OSHA required asbestos-lined jackets?
Asbestos fire-proofing made a substantial difference. We did not - in fact - go from "Let's make things fire-proof with asbestos" to "Eh, asbestos is bad, guess everything will burn down instead" but instead moved to fire-proofing with new materials in countries that could afford to do that.
Lots of older buildings have asbestos that's preventing fires and won't cause noticeable harm so long as it's undisturbed. The fibres are a problem, but a sheet of material under a layer of plaster isn't breaking off fibres that can get into your lungs. If your job is to rip out plaster and re-model buildings then that's a huge problem, but if you just live in a building you're getting much more benefit from it not catching fire than you'd get from very minutely reducing your risk of lung damage from asbestos.
In fact even for a brand new building, although it's banned in some places, "Let's use asbestos" makes more sense than "Eh, so what if it burns down and a few dozen people die", so if those are the available choices you should go with asbestos.
So it is with the available COVID-19 vaccines. SARS-CoV-2 is very dangerous and, outside of New Zealand and a handful of Pacific islands, widespread, so you're just way more likely to get very sick or die as a result of not being vaccinated than suffer a serious side effect, known or hypothetical.