Hong Kong: Police Raid Tiananmen Square Museum • Hacker News Board

Re: Hong Kong: Police Raid Tiananmen Square Museum

#381

Post by _tik_ » Fri, Sep 10, 2021, 5:49 AM UTC

MangoCoffee wrote: post #279

kunagi7 wrote: post #9

The Chinese Government is speeding up their efforts to swallow Hong Kong and Macau into the Mainland. Closing the media outlets, museums, websites that speak against them. And a few key people get abducted here and there to scare more people and force them to accept the Beijing Regime. But... The people from Hong Kong still demonstrates and tries to fight for their lost rights.

its sad. when Sun Yat-sen the father of modern China take on the Qing dynasty. Hong Kong was the base. It wasn't part of China and a lot of Chinese who is educated under the British rule understand what Sun try to achieve. a modern and free country. Hong Kong have been a base for a lot of progressive Chinese. Now that Hong Kong is fully back into China and the 50 years of no changes (for Hong Kong) promised by Deng X…

Based on Stilwell's Biography by Barbary Tuchman. Sun Yat-Sen never has strong power support. His party Kuomintang and his protege Chiang Kai Shek is a fascist authoritarian party. Kuomintang is corrupt, xenophobic, and abusive. CCP is more idealistic, less corrupt, and discipline. Both party did not trust British and wanted HK back.

Re: Hong Kong: Police Raid Tiananmen Square Museum

#382

Post by AussieWog93 » Fri, Sep 10, 2021, 5:49 AM UTC

bakuninsbart wrote: post #364

tablespoon wrote: post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's still Singapore, and it is not in the line of fire of China. Isn't Singapore already pretty authoritarian?

Singapore does not significantly differ in its authoritarianism from the PRC. They are however much richer, much smaller, and decided to follow a "capitalist" model, so they get less hate in our political discourse.

That is the most ridiculous hyperbole I have ever heard.

Yes, Singapore does have strict limitations on freedom of speech, but at the same time have separation of powers, free elections and a national identity separate to the PAP.

Re: Hong Kong: Police Raid Tiananmen Square Museum

#383

Post by Haga » Fri, Sep 10, 2021, 5:50 AM UTC

justicezyx wrote: post #358

MangoCoffee wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

its sad. when Sun Yat-sen the father of modern China take on the Qing dynasty. Hong Kong was the base. It wasn't part of China and a lot of Chinese who is educated under the British rule understand what Sun try to achieve. a modern and free country. Hong Kong have been a base for a lot of progressive Chinese. Now that Hong Kong is fully back into China and the 50 years of no changes (for Hong Kong) promised by Deng X…

> It wasn't part of China HK was sold to Britain as part of the corrupted and weak China's humiliation. What do you want to say? Are you trying to depict the image that HK has been forcefully claimed by China? Please stop this type of propaganda behavior. I don't like CCP, but that does not make HK not part of China. We Chinese eventually will get rid of CCP, but we don't want the great nation get split. Just like an…

This "great" nation was built on the corpse of several smaller nations a d ethnic groups. Theire reservations are a Disneyland of death by funny dances and deserve to be protected?

Re: Hong Kong: Police Raid Tiananmen Square Museum

#384

Post by divbzero » Fri, Sep 10, 2021, 5:53 AM UTC

mthoms wrote: post #207

Bayart wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>it's 5000 year history Please don't give credence to nonsensical nationalist tropes. The Oracle Bone Script goes back to about 1200 BC during the Shang Dynasty, that makes about 3200 years of history. Before that it's _pre-history_. It's a bit younger than Linear B, Old Avestan and Vedic Sanskrit. So in terms of a traceable, continuous culture China is at the fourth place of so. These days I'd probably be called a "…

That was the most pedantic correction I've ever seen on HN in a while :-). I think the parent was just speaking loosely rather than spreading "nonsensical nationalistic tropes". Take it easy. Does being 5000 or 3200 years old really change the discussion to anyone but historians?

I happened to like this pedantry! It refreshed my memory of history I had once learned but forgotten.

Re: Hong Kong: Police Raid Tiananmen Square Museum

#385

Post by yunohn » Fri, Sep 10, 2021, 5:55 AM UTC

Aunche wrote: post #209

TimTheTinker wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If there were a war there'd be no "Made in China" goods being exported. That would be the best thing that ever happened to the rest of the world, and to Chinese citizens as well. China has long abused its citizens to undercut global prices on manufactured goods. Their political and religious prisoners are very often put to work in factories (if not sent to work camps or tortured in prison); and wages for factory wo…

We wouldn't be trading with China if it didn't benefit us. A sanction damages the participants as much as its target. This doesn't matter if your target is a smaller country like Iran or even Russia, but China is way to big an exporter to sanction. >Their political and religious prisoners are very often put to work in factories (if not sent to work camps or tortured in prison) So you want them to shut down the factor…

> So you want them to shut down the factories, in which case they'll be sent to be sent to labor camps or rot in prison instead

What do you think a labor camp is, actually? It’s forced manual labor, done for the benefit of the non-imprisoned populace.

I don’t believe there’s much of a difference between being forced to manufacture goods versus rotting in a prison - both are horrible.

Mass shutdown of factories might actually spur some protest from the general populace and shed light on the plight of the imprisoned.

Re: Hong Kong: Police Raid Tiananmen Square Museum

#386

Post by tasogare » Fri, Sep 10, 2021, 5:55 AM UTC

JackeJR wrote: post #356

MangoCoffee wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

its sad. when Sun Yat-sen the father of modern China take on the Qing dynasty. Hong Kong was the base. It wasn't part of China and a lot of Chinese who is educated under the British rule understand what Sun try to achieve. a modern and free country. Hong Kong have been a base for a lot of progressive Chinese. Now that Hong Kong is fully back into China and the 50 years of no changes (for Hong Kong) promised by Deng X…

Some think that if the US extended their protection to Taiwan, Beijing would not attempt to take Taiwan. Let's just assume for a moment that the US will fight off attacks by China to take Taiwan. And that US successfully ward off an attack. What next? What is there to prevent China from trying again and again and again? Will the US be prepared to ward off attacks after attacks after attacks? This is unlikely to happe…

The local big player is Japan. It would be hard to intervene because of its current constitution but I don't see them letting PRC push its border so close. Moreover Okinawa was historically a vassal state of both Chinese empires and Japan, so it's possible China greed could extend there as well.

Re: Hong Kong: Police Raid Tiananmen Square Museum

#387

Post by yunohn » Fri, Sep 10, 2021, 5:57 AM UTC

TimTheTinker wrote: post #278

cma wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ireland was a net exporter of food during the potato famine, from appeals to laissez-faire capitalism.

That was due to abusive behavior on England's part. Every country and every political leader is capable of committing atrocities. But overall, rule-of-law democracy is much better at mitigating that than other forms of government.

> rule-of-law democracy is much better at mitigating that than other forms of government

I believe that both are exploitative, just that developed democracy is better at hiding it - either internally through low wage labor or by exporting to developing countries.

Re: Hong Kong: Police Raid Tiananmen Square Museum

#388

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Sep 10, 2021, 6:04 AM UTC

divbzero wrote: post #376

seibelj wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What’s funny is the most racist interactions I have had in professional situations were with Chinese businessmen. China is exceptionally racist. But they do try to cudgel America with it repeatedly.

I think this is true for many places around the world: where racism is just as serious or more so than in the US, but racism appears more prominent in the US because the issue has been dealt with more head on.

[deleted]

Re: Hong Kong: Police Raid Tiananmen Square Museum

#389

Post by howaboutnope » Fri, Sep 10, 2021, 6:05 AM UTC

sneak wrote: post #29

SimeVidas wrote: post #19

How much longer does China plan to keep this event taboo?

My guess would be until everyone who cares about it dies. He who controls the present, controls the past.

> Before mass leaders seize the power to fit reality to their lies, their propaganda is marked by its extreme contempt for facts as such, for in their opinion fact depends entirely on the power of man who can fabricate it. The assertion that the Moscow subway is the only one in the world is a lie only so long as the Bolsheviks have not the power to destroy all the others. In other words, the method of infallible prediction, more than any other totalitarian propaganda device, betrays its ultimate goal of world conquest, since only in a world completely under his control could the totalitarian ruler possibly realize all his lies and make true all his prophecies.

-- Hannah Arendt, "Origins of Totalitarianism"

Re: Hong Kong: Police Raid Tiananmen Square Museum

#390

Post by radu_floricica » Fri, Sep 10, 2021, 6:10 AM UTC

billiam wrote: post #228

Heartbreaking. I can't even talk about Tiananmen with Chinese -born friends under 40 in the US or Europe. TikTok and WeChat has achieved their goals of driving historical memory from their brains. And if I even mention Taiwan within seconds I am hearing the term "renegade province." It seems for now possible to create a true virtual totalitarian state in the 21st century. It's chains are forged out of "Xi thought" ap…

TikTok is 2 years old, WeChat is... 10? Communist china is well over 50 now. The apps are tools, nothing more. Just like Twitter is for the western left, btw.