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Hong Kong: Police Raid Tiananmen Square Museum

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Hong Kong: Police Raid Tiananmen Square Museum

#211

Post by thenewwazoo »

jollybean wrote: post #208
xnyan wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Step back and just think about it in realpolitik terms. If you were the leader of china, what would you think about the idea of nuclear weapons being brought to your borders? In a similar situation (the US had nukes in turkey and other areas close to the USSR) the Soviet Union used the same rational (in part) to justify putting nukes in Cuba. Just leveling the playing field. The result was the closest we’ve ever gott…

They would not be able to stop it though. By the time it was announced, it would already be done. The only real option China would have would be 'force' and a frontal war with China is a really big deal. That said, US-provided nukes for Taiwan would be a major escelation and fingers would be pointed in the direction of the US for 'blame' etc.. A lot of people would throw a fit over that. It might be better to just pu…

Your presumption of unity is doing a lot of work here. I, for one, would absolutely oppose going to war against China for the sake of Taiwan, instead preferring that that money go to humanitarian causes that would help Taiwanese suffering under a CCP regime. War, especially nuclear war, is abhorrent and I would not stand for it.

Re: Hong Kong: Police Raid Tiananmen Square Museum

#212

Post by ranger207 »

gogopuppygogo wrote: post #145
yodsanklai wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The amount of effort China is putting to sabotage Taiwan independence is astonishing. I have Taiwanese relatives and I'm very worried for them.

The USA has been losing all war games where it defends Tawain against China. https://nypost.com/2021/03/11/us-war-games-over-china-threat... It is not okay to assume USA supremacy against adversaries anymore. Why Americans still do business with China is astounding to me.

Wargames are designed to be lost. It's not as useful to say "welp we stomped all over them" as it is to push the forces being tested further and further until they break, then fixing or compensating where it broke and pushing even further. Wargames aren't constrained by reality, and the game's opposing force may be more powerful than in reality. Just hearing that the US lost a wargame doesn't mean anything without knowing more details. Think of a wargame as the military's version of a pentest.

Re: Hong Kong: Police Raid Tiananmen Square Museum

#214

Post by rohfle »

psim1 wrote: post #10

I visited this museum in 2016. It was incredible to see this on Chinese soil. Hong Kong had a mere 20 years of being truly Hong Kong, free of the UK and generally free of China. Now it is just more China.

Looks like the museum moved online after its license was revoked a few months ago.

Its in chinese only - but it looks like there are plans to translate into other languages

Link to online museum: https://8964museum.com/

More info: https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/politics/article/3143762...

Re: Hong Kong: Police Raid Tiananmen Square Museum

#215

Post by blibble »

onethought wrote: post #15
jmclnx wrote: post #5

I really wish the US and Europe would get *lls and punish China for breaking the treaty with Hong Kong and the UK

Punish them how? The global economy is heavy reliant on a cooperative China. UK have made it clear they aren’t part of the EU so why would the EU care? Just recall the context China are operating from: Hong Kong was stolen from them at the height of the opium wars. There is no fairness in these geopolitical dealings. Overall this sucks for HK… but it’s actually easy to understand all the parties involved actions/inac…

most of the EU doesn't care half of Cyprus (a member state) is still occupied

Re: Hong Kong: Police Raid Tiananmen Square Museum

#216

Post by teawrecks »

ekianjo wrote: post #186
pempem wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In most of the countries you've identified China has a strong toehold already.

not really. those neighbors have absolutely no trust in China. There is history too between these countries in Asia.

Politics isn't that simple. Not everyone in those countries feels the same way or is being paid by the same people. Even in HK where citizens regularly fill the streets to openly protest Chinese influence, the HK govt has many Chinese sympathizers who are trying to ensure the situation shakes out in China's favor.

Re: Hong Kong: Police Raid Tiananmen Square Museum

#217

Post by kevin_thibedeau »

neom wrote: post #192
tomrod wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why?

I also don't understand your comment. I went so far as to quickly skim through the history of Taiwan and I don't understand why you said China belongs to Taiwan?

Why were the Fourth Republic upstarts allowed to take control from the Vichy regime? De Gaulle's people ran for the hills and lost any claim to their old territory.

Re: Hong Kong: Police Raid Tiananmen Square Museum

#218

Post by systemvoltage »

xnyan wrote: post #200
stickfigure wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honest question: Why not just give Taiwan nukes? MAD seems to be a very effective peace strategy. China already has nukes. Seems the essential missing ingredient is the 'M'.

Step back and just think about it in realpolitik terms. If you were the leader of china, what would you think about the idea of nuclear weapons being brought to your borders? In a similar situation (the US had nukes in turkey and other areas close to the USSR) the Soviet Union used the same rational (in part) to justify putting nukes in Cuba. Just leveling the playing field. The result was the closest we’ve ever gott…

India, North Korea, Pakistan and Russia are all bordering nations to China with nuclear weapons. During the cold war and to this day, there are no bordering states or any one close to 3000 miles of US borders with nuclear weapons. So, your comparison to US/USSR cold war to China/Taiwan scenario is slightly misplaced I think.

Re: Hong Kong: Police Raid Tiananmen Square Museum

#219

Post by Aeolun »

ranger207 wrote: post #212
gogopuppygogo wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The USA has been losing all war games where it defends Tawain against China. https://nypost.com/2021/03/11/us-war-games-over-china-threat... It is not okay to assume USA supremacy against adversaries anymore. Why Americans still do business with China is astounding to me.

Wargames are designed to be lost. It's not as useful to say "welp we stomped all over them" as it is to push the forces being tested further and further until they break, then fixing or compensating where it broke and pushing even further. Wargames aren't constrained by reality, and the game's opposing force may be more powerful than in reality. Just hearing that the US lost a wargame doesn't mean anything without kn…

I mean, they’re playing a wargame against themselves, so technically they won too.

Re: Hong Kong: Police Raid Tiananmen Square Museum

#220

Post by Ansil849 »

yodsanklai wrote: post #142
asdff wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Beijing ever martyrs the protestors like tianeman again I don't think the world will take kindly to that at all. I even think russia would join an american coalition. China has no strong allies that wouldn't prefer to spare themselves in the event of worldwide intervention and they can't fight off the entire developed world alone no matter how far they came in recent decades.

I really think nobody cares. Even if China were to military invade Taiwan tonight, I'm not sure there would be any form of retaliation from western countries.

This. Frankly, I'm surprised with the restraint China is showing. They can more or less do whatever they want to Taiwan with no real repercussions.
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