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Hong Kong: Police Raid Tiananmen Square Museum

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Hong Kong: Police Raid Tiananmen Square Museum

#181

Post by nl »

stickfigure wrote: post #170
yuy910616 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really reminds me of the Taiwan election commercial that compares Taiwan and Hong Kong https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykcVIQMrc4A

Honest question: Why not just give Taiwan nukes? MAD seems to be a very effective peace strategy. China already has nukes. Seems the essential missing ingredient is the 'M'.

Nuclear proliferation is a bigger concern than a Chinese takeover of Taiwan.

If the US gives nukes to Taiwan, what would stop China giving nukes to eg Venezuela (or whatever South or Central American nation the US doesn't like that month).

Edit: previously I wrote "If the US gives nukes to China". I meant Taiwan here of course.

Re: Hong Kong: Police Raid Tiananmen Square Museum

#182

Post by mthoms »

asdff wrote: post #156
yodsanklai wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>US has sophisticated missile defense systems and enough nukes to send the entire continent of asia back to the stone age So does China with the US.

China's arsenal is almost a full order of magnitude smaller than just what the US has currently deployed and ready for launch (not counting the rest of the stockpile which is like 4x the size). We have enough weaponry to completely overwhelm their defenses. China does not.

So China will only nuke 60% of the US population instead of the 90% casualties we will inflict on them? Huzzah! That will show 'em!

Re: Hong Kong: Police Raid Tiananmen Square Museum

#184

Post by selectodude »

pedrosorio wrote: post #155
krapp wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Many people who didn't vote for Clinton or Biden are effectively in career hiding. Are they? Where? In the American South, where I live, Republicans, Conservatives and Trumpists are still loud and proud, and gainfully employed.

Recent case of a CEO losing their job in the American South (HQ: Roswell, Georgia) for supporting the recent Texas abortion law: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-09-07/video-gam... EDIT: To be clear, this not evidence in favor of the comment you were responding to: "There is a trend of certain dominant power in all of these countries that is quashing all opposing voices". As far as I can tell, supporting…

For the same reason I wouldn't put a Biden/Harris sign on my gun store in rural Missouri, I would probably keep my mouth shut on abortion if I'm the CEO of a video game developer.

Your job is to make other people money. If you become a liability you're not going to have a job much longer.

Re: Hong Kong: Police Raid Tiananmen Square Museum

#185

Post by azalemeth »

Genuine, non-inflammatory question: Who's behind this, in China? I know that "Winnie the Pooh" gets the public blame, but this seems to be a very... public, provocative thing to do. Is the person ordering it aware of that, and how provocative it is? Is it Carrie Lam? Their chief of police? Orders from someone higher up in the party, maybe at the ministerial level? Or does the order really from the top? Frankly, I would think that Mr Xiping would have better things to do running a country of a billion people than decide to provoke the HK populace on a random day in September.

Edit: very rudely, please tell me why you're down-voting me if you are?

Re: Hong Kong: Police Raid Tiananmen Square Museum

#186

Post by ekianjo »

pempem wrote: post #153
hker wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They can get away with almost anything. Not if factories move to Vietnam, Thailand, Laos, Bangladesh, India, etc., as the current trend continues.

In most of the countries you've identified China has a strong toehold already.

not really. those neighbors have absolutely no trust in China. There is history too between these countries in Asia.

Re: Hong Kong: Police Raid Tiananmen Square Museum

#187

Post by tomrod »

nl wrote: post #175
tomrod wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue is, the CCP sees Taiwan as theirs when in reality China belongs to Taiwan. It would seem a treaty acknowledging Taiwan as an independent sovereign would be an ideal outcome, but it's weird to see nations express wounded pride, imo

> The issue is, the CCP sees Taiwan as theirs when in reality China belongs to Taiwan. What on earth is this supposed to mean? I'm no fan of the Chinese government, but trying to claim it is illegitimate seems a pretty big stretch.

Why?

Re: Hong Kong: Police Raid Tiananmen Square Museum

#188

Post by dustintrex »

refenestrator wrote: post #160
tablespoon wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but don't tell me it's human rights. The world is a messy place and at many times it may be impossible to pursue that goal in an entirely consistent manner. There's also the other factor of self-preservation. It's not a good strategy to cede advantages to your opponent and hope a deus ex machina saves you in the end. > The Chinese haven't acted with force outside of what they consider their soil/sea in like 40 year…

As of right now, there's no battlefield. China's official doctrine has been non-interference in other nations since Mao and they've mostly stuck to it with a few aberrations like a 30 day war in Vietnam. Xi has been pushing the limits internally and maybe one day that turns external but people here are talking about pre-emptive cold war. EDIT: diplomatic recognition is a purely symbolic move, and in this case the sym…

China's official doctrine is also that Taiwan is a part of China, and the status of Taiwan is purely an internal affair.

Re: Hong Kong: Police Raid Tiananmen Square Museum

#189

Post by retrac »

eloisius wrote: post #177
stickfigure wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honest question: Why not just give Taiwan nukes? MAD seems to be a very effective peace strategy. China already has nukes. Seems the essential missing ingredient is the 'M'.

ROC had its own nuclear program in the past and almost made it to the point of being able to produce their own. The US, of all parties, intervened to have it stopped. Probably because Chiang was an unhinged madman intent on retaking the mainland. ROC is now an imminently nuclear nation. Something like six months away from having nukes at any time.

This is true of most medium-sized industrial countries, actually, if they have power reactors. If Japan, Germany, Canada or even Finland or Argentina, really wanted nukes and wrote a blank cheque for domestic spending to that end, they could have one within a year, probably much less. Only lack of desire (mostly for the diplomatic and possible military consequences, I figure) really keeps them from doing so.

Re: Hong Kong: Police Raid Tiananmen Square Museum

#190

Post by ekianjo »

wallacoloo wrote: post #168
chasd00 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For one, it's well known in tech that you're putting your job/livelihood at risk by speaking contrary to the political groupthink. Many people who didn't vote for Clinton or Biden are effectively in career hiding. Threatening someone's job over their beliefs/opinions is very effective censorship.

> it's well known in tech that you're putting your job/livelihood at risk by speaking contrary to the political groupthink. Have you ever tried it? FWIW, coworkers in my org pushed for a blacklist of words we’re not allowed to check into the codebase within the last year. I raised my counter opinion. I did so respectfully. Today, there’s no blacklist, and I still have my job. Btw my presidential vote was a write-in f…

> Btw my presidential vote was a write-in for Bernie Sanders as president with Yang as running mate

the comment before was probably not aimed at those who vote or support the left.

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