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Hong Kong: Police Raid Tiananmen Square Museum

bbc.co.uk

191–200 of 538 posts

Re: Hong Kong: Police Raid Tiananmen Square Museum

#191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Punish them how? The global economy is heavy reliant on a cooperative China. UK have made it clear they aren’t part of the EU so why would the EU care? Just recall the context China are operating from: Hong Kong was stolen from them at the height of the opium wars. There is no fairness in these geopolitical dealings. Overall this sucks for HK… but it’s actually easy to understand all the parties involved actions/inac…

The China of the opium wars was a completely different entity than Communist China. I don't see that there is any obligation whatsoever to deal with the ccp as if they are the legitimate successors of all things formerly China. They're lying, cheating, and stealing from every entity they deal with on the world stage, blatantly holding themselves above any law, even internally. This doesn't end well unless there's som…

Blatantly holding themselves above any law, who does that remind me of..

We have done and continue to do more than our fair share of lying, cheating, and stealing. We metaphorically stacked the deck. You say "global conflict" - I'll remind you that it takes two to have a conflict. And America has the modern world beat in terms of starting and perpetuating conflicts.

Re: Hong Kong: Police Raid Tiananmen Square Museum

#192
post #187
post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The issue is, the CCP sees Taiwan as theirs when in reality China belongs to Taiwan. What on earth is this supposed to mean? I'm no fan of the Chinese government, but trying to claim it is illegitimate seems a pretty big stretch.

Why?

I also don't understand your comment. I went so far as to quickly skim through the history of Taiwan and I don't understand why you said China belongs to Taiwan?

Re: Hong Kong: Police Raid Tiananmen Square Museum

#193
post #172
post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China's arsenal is almost a full order of magnitude smaller than just what the US has currently deployed and ready for launch (not counting the rest of the stockpile which is like 4x the size). We have enough weaponry to completely overwhelm their defenses. China does not.

Not to mention that the US deployed strategic arms in more diverse locations (other countries), making a first strike against them that takes out most of their response capability difficult to pull off successfully.

Wtf? Why are people in this thread acting like the nuclear option is an actual option. This isn't StarCraft where you trade into the enemy forces, and as long as you cripple their economy you win. You just killed billions of innocent people. Everyone lost.

Y'all need to go watch War Games again. The only winning move is not to play.

Re: Hong Kong: Police Raid Tiananmen Square Museum

#194
post #187
post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The issue is, the CCP sees Taiwan as theirs when in reality China belongs to Taiwan. What on earth is this supposed to mean? I'm no fan of the Chinese government, but trying to claim it is illegitimate seems a pretty big stretch.

Why?

Well apart from over 70 years of mostly stable government (with Tiananmen square being the exception) they are broadly recognized by most countries and the UN and have been for close to 50 years.

There's little evidence of support in China or even in Taiwan for the idea that the Taiwan government are the legitimate government of mainland China, and Taiwanese ambition is pretty much limited in practical terms to self government.

Indeed, I don't believe Taiwan claims China in anyway I can find reference to.

Re: Hong Kong: Police Raid Tiananmen Square Museum

#195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As of right now, there's no battlefield. China's official doctrine has been non-interference in other nations since Mao and they've mostly stuck to it with a few aberrations like a 30 day war in Vietnam. Xi has been pushing the limits internally and maybe one day that turns external but people here are talking about pre-emptive cold war. EDIT: diplomatic recognition is a purely symbolic move, and in this case the sym…

China's official doctrine is also that Taiwan is a part of China, and the status of Taiwan is purely an internal affair.

That's true, but if it ends there, then it's not a vital matter of self-defense for us. Honestly, not even that important in terms of balance of power provided we get that TSMC plant up in Arizona first.

What it IS, is a grievous insult to our insistence on being the last word in international affairs.

Re: Hong Kong: Police Raid Tiananmen Square Museum

#196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Define what you mean by left.

It's the correct side of the road to drive on, in the northern hemisphere! Roundabouts should be the same direction as sundials.

Please keep it to politics. We don't want a flame war! :-/

Re: Hong Kong: Police Raid Tiananmen Square Museum

#197
post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>US has sophisticated missile defense systems and enough nukes to send the entire continent of asia back to the stone age So does China with the US.

China's arsenal is almost a full order of magnitude smaller than just what the US has currently deployed and ready for launch (not counting the rest of the stockpile which is like 4x the size). We have enough weaponry to completely overwhelm their defenses. China does not.

“ Mr. President, I'm not saying we wouldn't get our hair mussed. But I do say no more than ten to twenty million killed, tops. Uh, depending on the breaks.”

-General Buck Turgidson, Dr Strangelove

Here it is in video form, watch it so you can see how ridiculous your idea is: https://youtube.com/watch?v=HgyjlqhiTV8

Re: Hong Kong: Police Raid Tiananmen Square Museum

#198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really reminds me of the Taiwan election commercial that compares Taiwan and Hong Kong https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykcVIQMrc4A

The amount of effort China is putting to sabotage Taiwan independence is astonishing. I have Taiwanese relatives and I'm very worried for them.

Replace Taiwan with Republic of China (i.e. formal name) and it isn't nearly as astonishing anymore isn't it.

Re: Hong Kong: Police Raid Tiananmen Square Museum

#199
post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honest question: Why not just give Taiwan nukes? MAD seems to be a very effective peace strategy. China already has nukes. Seems the essential missing ingredient is the 'M'.

Nuclear proliferation is a bigger concern than a Chinese takeover of Taiwan. If the US gives nukes to Taiwan, what would stop China giving nukes to eg Venezuela (or whatever South or Central American nation the US doesn't like that month). Edit: previously I wrote "If the US gives nukes to China". I meant Taiwan here of course.

What? China is already a nuclear power with nuclear weapons, and has been for decades.

The question posed by the parent is arming Taiwan to defend itself.

Re: Hong Kong: Police Raid Tiananmen Square Museum

#200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really reminds me of the Taiwan election commercial that compares Taiwan and Hong Kong https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykcVIQMrc4A

Honest question: Why not just give Taiwan nukes? MAD seems to be a very effective peace strategy. China already has nukes. Seems the essential missing ingredient is the 'M'.

Step back and just think about it in realpolitik terms. If you were the leader of china, what would you think about the idea of nuclear weapons being brought to your borders?

In a similar situation (the US had nukes in turkey and other areas close to the USSR) the Soviet Union used the same rational (in part) to justify putting nukes in Cuba. Just leveling the playing field. The result was the closest we’ve ever gotten to a nuclear conflict.

From one point of you could argue this was “fair”, because the US already had missiles close to the USSR and this was leveling the playing field, but fair is a meaningless concept in geopolitical relations. Leaving bad and good aside, who would ever want their rival to place nuclear weapons close by?

The government of China would have to be either traitorous or insane to not do everything in their power to prevent this from happening.

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